[nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Dan Weiner dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
Sat Nov 27 12:46:05 UTC 2010


Just a note:
I like the idea of dogs running in open spaces.
Until either the schools put a good recall on the dogs or we achieve it
ourselves we're asking for problems.


Cordially,

Dan W.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 8:30 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Dan and Lora,

Sometimes it's the orthodoxy that is ill-advised.  /evil grin/  I'm a big
proponent of freedom to run play in wide open spaces.  Apparently, most if
not all U.S. guide dog programs are against that sort of thing.  At least
they used to be; I hear they're getting less uptight about it lately.

The key is to find a place where your dog will be as safe as possible to run
and play and even socialize with other dogs.  Especially at first, because
reliable recall and boundaries take time to learn.  Also, it seems that
reliability is a matter of maturity, so you need to maintain protections for
a wild and crazy dog until at least the age of 5.  /smile/  Well, the level
of total reliability I'm referring to there means that the dog is
self-disciplined and obedient enough to walk with its owner off-leash around
a city neighborhood without getting into trouble or endangering itself or
others.  Used to be, Portlanders would take their well-trained,
well-mannered dogs all over the place that way -- farmer's markets, street
fairs, community picnics, you name it.  Then people started taking their
untrained, ill-mannered scurvy curs to those venues, so now those of us who
have taken the time to train our dogs have to keep them on leash even though
the law still says on leash or under control.  Oh, well!  Mine is just now
mature and reliable enough for me to consider wandering around a farmer's
market or such with her off leash, and I would be using her as a guide
anyway. Still!  I would have loved an opportunity to see all that patience
and perserverance come into play, just a time or two.  I'm silly that way, I
guess.

So the 5-year maturity limit is only if you really want to have a dog that
is totally reliable off-leash in unfenced areas.  I do, so I've been working
with Mitzi poodle on that since January of '07...  While I still limit
potential risks when we're doing our thing with no physical connection
between us, she's pretty awesome and I don't worry much these days.  Also,
she truly does jingle guide and squeak guide with her ball, so it's great
for just walking around in the great outdoors with her.  /smile/

I put bells on her collar so I know where she is, and I always reinforce
recall and minding boundaries.  Which I can now set on the fly, so that's
cool.  I have no need to take her on a sidewalk near traffic, and would not
choose to do so.  However, it is nice to know that if for whatever strange
reason I have a need for her to be off-leash, she would be fine.  I did
actually manage to lose my leash at the park a couple of years back and was
astonished at how well she did coming home without it.  It was a pretty safe
walk, except for a couple of passages, but she was awfully darn good,
especially considering her age and general level of overall snottiness.
Love her, but she is Mitzi poodle, after all.  /grin/

Incorporating interactive play into your off-leash time also does wonders.
You can do a lot of reinforcing your training without actually doing any
training.  And you can both get lots of exercise while having fun together.
You can praise a behavior your dog makes in the course of play ("Good bring
it!), then reward the dog by throwing (or kicking) the ball,which is the
reward.  It's a fun way to have a dog that listens and responds well during
off leash romps.

With my ulta high-energy wild and crazy curly girl, I have done my best to
follow a couple of hard and fast rules for myself:

	1.  Always reward recall.  Always!
	2.  Never give a command you know your dog will not obey.

Oh, and when it comes to teaching your dog to pay attention to you when it
counts...  Smelly treats!  If they're much too expensive and you can't stand
yourself when you have a pocket full of them, then you're probably on the
right track.  /lol/  Early on, especially, using rank bribery to start
conditioning obedience is definitely the way to go.  Dogs are
scent-oriented, so a smelly treat will get the dog's attention and bring it
to you, even when said dog was planning to run by you demonstrating that it
has no intention of coming to you just because you called it.  I speak from
experience there.  /grin/  It's a way to condition the dog to come whether
it wants to be conditioned or not.  /lol/  I could still see Mitzi well
enough on sunny days to catch her expression when that start kicking in.
She was so mad!  But she couldn't help herself because, well, you know...
Smelly treats are smelly treats.  Yum!

Don't know if any of that is helpful in your situation.  It was fun to
suddenly find myself thinking back through all the fun (and sometimes scary)
times with my curly girl, seeing those sunny days in the park by my old
apartment with far more clarity than I probably really did....

Now, I need to remember how to walk around the house I live in on this dank
and dreary winter's night... /lol/

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Dan Weiner
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:39 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Well, just my opinion.
First of all, with outside do you mean a fenced-in area or an open space
with no borders?
If it's fenced-in, then really no harm done and let him run around and get
rid of pent up energy.
If it's totally open, I would say that letting her off lead is ill-advised.
Perhaps you could buy a flexi-lead to give your dog more space to roam
without getting away.
I have a fifteen foot nylon leash I bought about 15 years ago, one foot per
year--lol.
The problem is that your dog can get tangled up in it.
So, fenced-in area, all right, open area, not so hot--smile.
Indoors, well, and this is just a general comment, I find that people are
really uptight about everything their dogs do. How can your dog learn what's
expected without freedom in the house. Besides, keeping him/her on leash if
it's your home will make you a nervous wreck and start feeling like a
burden.
Even the best guide dogs I've seen will eventually do something silly in the
house, so don't sweat the little stuff.

Perhaps unorthodox but my two cent worth anyway. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 1:33 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Um, I wouldn't let him outside off leash myself. As for inside, are you
doing obedience? Often the dogs really need that for a while before you can
get what you are looking for. I do obedience on leash sometimes; then as a
final exercise I do it off leash to see if he'll do it.

CL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lora" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:27 PM
Subject: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs


After about six months I have been trying to give my guide dog freedom
outside and inside. He still gets into trouble mostly outside. He
won't listen off leash. Any suggestions?
-- 
Lora

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