[nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Sat Nov 27 15:47:03 UTC 2010

Oh, sorry!  I wasn't anywhere near the same page as you, was I?

When we put our dogs on a limited diet for Daisy, it took me forever to find
a smelly treat that had none of the wrong stuff in it.  So now I use Zuke's
mini's salmon flavor, which are also low calorie, which is a plus.  Daisy
has finally converted to positive training enough that I don't have to use a
zillion treats a day, which is a relief to my budget.  Of course, since
Mitzi needs equal treatment, we were going through ridiculous amounts of the
stuff.

It looks like others are giving you some useful techniques to try, so
they've probably already covered any ground that I could in terms of useful
information.

Sounds like you got a good dog this time.  Third time's the charm, I guess.
/smile/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Lora
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 5:56 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs

Just so you guys know he has only got on the table twice in the six
months I have had him. I want to give him good smelly treats but he is
on a limited diet to test for food allergies. He doesn't want to play
fetch. When we go outside all he wants to do is smell the ground. My
mom's dog comes amazingly but mine doesn't. I've tried food rewards
but they don't seeem to help any.

On 11/26/10, Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Dan and Lora,
>
> Sometimes it's the orthodoxy that is ill-advised.  /evil grin/  I'm a big
> proponent of freedom to run play in wide open spaces.  Apparently, most if
> not all U.S. guide dog programs are against that sort of thing.  At least
> they used to be; I hear they're getting less uptight about it lately.
>
> The key is to find a place where your dog will be as safe as possible to
run
> and play and even socialize with other dogs.  Especially at first, because
> reliable recall and boundaries take time to learn.  Also, it seems that
> reliability is a matter of maturity, so you need to maintain protections
for
> a wild and crazy dog until at least the age of 5.  /smile/  Well, the
level
> of total reliability I'm referring to there means that the dog is
> self-disciplined and obedient enough to walk with its owner off-leash
around
> a city neighborhood without getting into trouble or endangering itself or
> others.  Used to be, Portlanders would take their well-trained,
> well-mannered dogs all over the place that way -- farmer's markets, street
> fairs, community picnics, you name it.  Then people started taking their
> untrained, ill-mannered scurvy curs to those venues, so now those of us
who
> have taken the time to train our dogs have to keep them on leash even
though
> the law still says on leash or under control.  Oh, well!  Mine is just now
> mature and reliable enough for me to consider wandering around a farmer's
> market or such with her off leash, and I would be using her as a guide
> anyway. Still!  I would have loved an opportunity to see all that patience
> and perserverance come into play, just a time or two.  I'm silly that way,
I
> guess.
>
> So the 5-year maturity limit is only if you really want to have a dog that
> is totally reliable off-leash in unfenced areas.  I do, so I've been
working
> with Mitzi poodle on that since January of '07...  While I still limit
> potential risks when we're doing our thing with no physical connection
> between us, she's pretty awesome and I don't worry much these days.  Also,
> she truly does jingle guide and squeak guide with her ball, so it's great
> for just walking around in the great outdoors with her.  /smile/
>
> I put bells on her collar so I know where she is, and I always reinforce
> recall and minding boundaries.  Which I can now set on the fly, so that's
> cool.  I have no need to take her on a sidewalk near traffic, and would
not
> choose to do so.  However, it is nice to know that if for whatever strange
> reason I have a need for her to be off-leash, she would be fine.  I did
> actually manage to lose my leash at the park a couple of years back and
was
> astonished at how well she did coming home without it.  It was a pretty
safe
> walk, except for a couple of passages, but she was awfully darn good,
> especially considering her age and general level of overall snottiness.
> Love her, but she is Mitzi poodle, after all.  /grin/
>
> Incorporating interactive play into your off-leash time also does wonders.
> You can do a lot of reinforcing your training without actually doing any
> training.  And you can both get lots of exercise while having fun
together.
> You can praise a behavior your dog makes in the course of play ("Good
bring
> it!), then reward the dog by throwing (or kicking) the ball,which is the
> reward.  It's a fun way to have a dog that listens and responds well
during
> off leash romps.
>
> With my ulta high-energy wild and crazy curly girl, I have done my best to
> follow a couple of hard and fast rules for myself:
>
> 	1.  Always reward recall.  Always!
> 	2.  Never give a command you know your dog will not obey.
>
> Oh, and when it comes to teaching your dog to pay attention to you when it
> counts...  Smelly treats!  If they're much too expensive and you can't
stand
> yourself when you have a pocket full of them, then you're probably on the
> right track.  /lol/  Early on, especially, using rank bribery to start
> conditioning obedience is definitely the way to go.  Dogs are
> scent-oriented, so a smelly treat will get the dog's attention and bring
it
> to you, even when said dog was planning to run by you demonstrating that
it
> has no intention of coming to you just because you called it.  I speak
from
> experience there.  /grin/  It's a way to condition the dog to come whether
> it wants to be conditioned or not.  /lol/  I could still see Mitzi well
> enough on sunny days to catch her expression when that start kicking in.
> She was so mad!  But she couldn't help herself because, well, you know...
> Smelly treats are smelly treats.  Yum!
>
> Don't know if any of that is helpful in your situation.  It was fun to
> suddenly find myself thinking back through all the fun (and sometimes
scary)
> times with my curly girl, seeing those sunny days in the park by my old
> apartment with far more clarity than I probably really did....
>
> Now, I need to remember how to walk around the house I live in on this
dank
> and dreary winter's night... /lol/
>
> Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Dan Weiner
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 10:39 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
>
> Well, just my opinion.
> First of all, with outside do you mean a fenced-in area or an open space
> with no borders?
> If it's fenced-in, then really no harm done and let him run around and get
> rid of pent up energy.
> If it's totally open, I would say that letting her off lead is
ill-advised.
> Perhaps you could buy a flexi-lead to give your dog more space to roam
> without getting away.
> I have a fifteen foot nylon leash I bought about 15 years ago, one foot
per
> year--lol.
> The problem is that your dog can get tangled up in it.
> So, fenced-in area, all right, open area, not so hot--smile.
> Indoors, well, and this is just a general comment, I find that people are
> really uptight about everything their dogs do. How can your dog learn
what's
> expected without freedom in the house. Besides, keeping him/her on leash
if
> it's your home will make you a nervous wreck and start feeling like a
> burden.
> Even the best guide dogs I've seen will eventually do something silly in
the
> house, so don't sweat the little stuff.
>
> Perhaps unorthodox but my two cent worth anyway.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 1:33 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
>
> Um, I wouldn't let him outside off leash myself. As for inside, are you
> doing obedience? Often the dogs really need that for a while before you
can
> get what you are looking for. I do obedience on leash sometimes; then as a
> final exercise I do it off leash to see if he'll do it.
>
> CL
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lora" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 12:27 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] Freedom for guide dogs
>
>
> After about six months I have been trying to give my guide dog freedom
> outside and inside. He still gets into trouble mostly outside. He
> won't listen off leash. Any suggestions?
> --
> Lora
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/dcwein%40dcwein.cnc.n
> et
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
> .net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blindhistory%40gmail.
com
>

-- 
Lora

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast
.net