[nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

Steve Johnson stevencjohnson at centurytel.net
Thu Sep 9 12:44:10 UTC 2010


Jewell,

The larger issue that you are apparently trying to make is that a person
with allergies may also be covered under the ADA.  As this statement could
be true, it would need to go through the legal process in order for that to
be determined.  However, if a cabbie does have allergies, it then becomes
their sole responsibility to request reasonable accommodations if it meets
the definition of disability under the ADA Amendements Act, not ours as dog
guide handlers.  Title III and Title I issues are very separate, and it is
my right and everyone elses right to access that public accommodation.  It
is important to differentiate who has the legal right in such a situation,
and based on what this thread has uncovered, it is my right to have equal
access to that taxi as my sighted and non-sighted peers who do not use dog
guides or any other type of service dog.  

This situation with a taxi driver, if compared to other similar issues,
would be no different if a bus driver for instance, had allergies to dog
dander.  What are they going to do, deny me access and ask that I wait for
the next bus to come?  Nope, and if they did, one big can of whoop ass would
be unleashed, and I would encourage anyone who faces similar issues with
taxi companies or drivers, to use the resources of NAGDU and the NFB to push
this as a real legal issue surrounding our Title III access rights under the
ADA.

The ADA is a complicated law, and like other civil rights laws,
understanding the full scope of how one's rights are affected can be
difficult.  

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:51 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

Jewel, I don't like it. In theory it's fine. What happens though if I need
or want to be someplace, I call a cab, the guy who shows up can't or won't
transport me and I miss whatever I is I am doing because the next cab has to
get to me? If I miss say a doctor's appointment, will the cab company pay
for a missed appointment which can be close to $100 per some doctors
policies? If I miss a plane, who will pay for me to take the next flight?
What if I'm meeting someone for lunch or dinner and we all need to get home
to our families and don't have much time? 
Finally, isn't Muslim's first duty to be helpful to people they view in
need? 
I'm not current on Muslim teachings, but you've got me thinking of Orthodox
Jews who believe that no work can be done on the Sabbath. This does not
excuse them from taking care of children or of medical needs.
If Grandma needs to go to the hospital on the Sabbath, then you take her.
You change diapers on the Sabbath because your first duty is to preserve
life and health. Finally, if we make life more difficult with a guide dog,
why would anybody want one? If I can go into a place or take a cab with no
issues without my dog, and then get lesser treatment with a dog, why would I
say "You know, I don't have enough going on my life, I think I really wanta
dog. And, I'll do my best to encourage others that this is a really great
mobility option". 


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jewel S.
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:53 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

I was talking to a driver for the company I usually use for non-scheduled
(non-paratransit) trips. His company, Cardinal Cabs, has never given me or
anyone I know any trouble with accessibility. We discussed the guide dog
issue and what he would suggest as an alternative for taxi drivers who
genuinely cannot have a dog in their cab, such as someone who is severely
allergic. He made the comment that he is severely allergic to dogs himself
(what coincidence!), and the last exposure he had (with medicine even) sent
him intot he hospital. The company he works for informed him he could not
refuse a customer with a service animal, but did offer a special
accommodation that I thik would be a good special accommodation for Muslims
also.
All taxis have to have some way of speaking to headquarters, so if they come
across someone with a dog but can't (for religious or medical reasons) take
the dog into their taxi, they can call HQ and request another cab be sent to
this person ASAP. The cab driver who spotted the person would be responsible
for stopping and letting the service dog owner of the situation and give
them both the HQ phone number and the employee numbers of himself and the
cab driver who was assigned to serve this person.

We must remember that we are not the only disabled people out there.
Taxi drivers can also be disabled with severe allergies, and I think it is
important to give accommodation for religious reasons. America is the land
of the free, and that means everyone, not just some.
Muslims are entitled to their religious opinions, but that doesn't mean they
should leave that person without transportation.

What do you guys think of this solution? As I said, this is a solution
currently being used by a cab driver in Raleigh, NC who is severely allergic
to dogs. He said that most cab drivers in the area are more aware of the
needs of the disabled because of the fact that our paratransit system is
contracted to taxis rather than buses. I tend to agree. I also thinkn more
cities should employ taxi drivers as paratransit service providers as
Raleigh does.

I'd love to hear what you all have to add to this!

On 9/7/10, Robert Stigile <rstigile at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hello Marion and All,
> There has been a lot of discussion on this list, about taxi cab 
> drivers in DC.
> This last Washington Seminar, I had my first experience of a driver, 
> in a long time, that thought you needed to pay a fee for having the 
> dog in the cab.
> He even went as far as trying to tell me, that the sign on the back 
> window, told you how much extra it will be for the dog.
> I finally gave up trying to explain to him, that there should not be a 
> extra charge, and said, well, if you are so inclined to charge an 
> extra fee, then I guess I will have to take it out of your tip.
> He backed off at that point, and when we got out of the vehicle, I had 
> someone read him the sign, of which it said, there is no extra charge 
> for service animals.
> Here in my area, specifically the San Fernando Valley, a suburb of Los 
> Angeles, we really do not have issues, because I have filed several 
> complaints with the Department of Transportation, as well as our 
> Division, CAGDU, has worked very hard, around the state, to inform the 
> agencies that oversee the taxi cab companies, that it is our right to 
> travel with a service animal, and because of the work we have done, a 
> lot of the issues have disappeared.
> Once in a while, there will be a driver who thinks, he can get a way 
> with not picking you up, but the dispatchers can tell when the driver 
> is doing that, and they will suspend them, I have actually heard them 
> over the radio or while on the phone, telling a driver they will need 
> to bring their cab in, due to their behavior towards a blind person.
> So, it may be tedious for a while, but you have to file complaints.
> I hope this helps,
>
>
> Robert Stigile
> E-mail: rstigile at sbcglobal.net
> Skype: robertstigile1
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:23:02 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide 
> dogs
>
> Will,
>     There is no obligation, as I have stated, to inform the company of 
> the presence of a guide dog.  Again, if you are refused access because 
> of your guide dog, I strongly suggest you file complaints as widely as 
> possible.
> this means with the agency that regulates the cab company, your 
> state's human rights department, law enforcement, and the DOJ.  If you 
> ever need any assistance, please do not hesitate to call upon me!
>
> fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala, President
> National Association of Guide Dog Users National Federation of the 
> Blind
> 813-626-2789
> Blind411 at Verizon.net
> HTTP://NAGDU.ORG
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU Mailing List"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide 
> dogs
>
>
> Many times, I have been told that they will not take people since the 
> oporator did not inform the driver that there was a dog, etc.
> The
>
> --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>  From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net
>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide 
> dogs
>  To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>  <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>  Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:11 PM  Will,  I'm not sure what 
> you mean by needing to  "go on explaining and waiting for the approval 
> of the  supervisor"! If you mean that you are advising them that you  
> will be accompanied by a guide dog, the way to resolve this  is to not 
> tell them.  You are under no obligation to do so  under the law; 
> likewise, they are obliged under the law to  transport you.  The 
> presence of your guide dog is irrelevant,  so don't tell them!
>  What I did here in Tampa is to call about  ten minutes aftter my 
> first call to check on whether or not  the call had ben dispatched.  
> Generally, they would tell me  what cab number was dispatched to pick 
> me up.  If the cabbie  refused to carry me, I would advise him that I 
> am blind and  my dog is a service animal.  If the driver continued in 
> the  refusal, I would let him drive away so that there was a  clear 
> refusal.  In Florida, violation of the law is a second  degree 
> misdemeanor and, as per resolution 2010-25, it is now  the policy of 
> the NFB to work for the same penalties in all  states.  File a 
> complaint against the cabbie and against the  company.  The company 
> may claim that they have no control  over their drivers if the drivers 
> are independent  contractors; however, the law does not see it this 
> way and,  when the owners of the cab companies find themselves paying  
> their high-priced attorneys to defend them against charges  of 
> discrimination, they will start making some changes!
>
>  Fraternally yours,
>  Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell"
>  <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
>  To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU  Mailing List" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:47 AM
>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people  with guide 
> dogs
>
>
>  The same thing goes on here in NYC.  If you need a  cab, you can get 
> a yellow cab in Manhattan; however, outside  the city, it is a hit or 
> miss issue with the car  companies.  First, you need to call for the 
> cab and go  on explaining and waiting for approval of the supervisors,  
> dispatchers, and drivers.  If you are trying to get a  cab on the 
> street, well, good luck.  The yellow cabs I  mention above are the 
> ones from the medallion Taxi and  limousine commission (TLC).  They 
> will usually pick you  up; however, then you need to go on with the 
> explanations  that the dog is a service dog and will not harm anyone  
> because very often you here the fear from the driver that  the dog may 
> harm them.
>  --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>  wrote:
>
>  From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind  people with guide 
> dogs
>  To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of  Guide Dog 
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>  Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 7:42 AM  Granted, Sherri, the 
> wording is  regrettable, but the fact is we're not  going to win on 
> some of these points and in the case  of the  article we'd be  missing 
> the forest for the trees pointing that out,,  or however that goes.
>  At lease when I lived in Maryland I can tell you that  access was a 
> problem  when it came to cabs.
>  And, those friends of mine who lived in DC would  confirm  the 
> estimate of  half the drivers passing by or not taking you.
>
>  This is the height of absurdity and even shameful,  that  we've had 
> eighty  years of guide dog training here in the USA and it's  still  
> that way.
>  And like it or not, nine times out of ten in my neck  of the  woods 
> in  Maryland it was people from the mid East, Africa and  Asia,  
> emigrants in  other words, who did the worst offending in this  
> regard.
>  This is the first
>  time in my life, sorry to say, that I started feeling  a  real 
> hostility to  emigrants, who, in my way of thinking, were dishing  out 
> to  people from here  worse treatment then they were getting.  They 
> had jobs  and  could find them  quickly again, no skin off their nose 
> to treat a  blind  person like dirt.
>  And, guys, don't start with me the old chorus of how  they're afraid 
> of dogs,  etc.  I couldn't care less, it isn't a dog popularity  
> contest we're in here.
>  The reasons are immaterial to me, how to reverse this  trend  is what 
> I'm  interested in.
>
>
>  Sad but true it was a lot of folks from other lands  who did  this.
>  .
>  Not that there weren't any good old native American  born, white and 
> black  guys, who had their chance to step up to the plate and  be  
> butt holes because  there were.
>  So, you were lucky if you got drivers who knew you, or  I'd  take 
> numbers of  cabbies I liked and give them some business on the  side,  
> but frankly, the  fact that we have to do that means there's something  
> seriously wrong.
>  I mention that because some blind friends there said  rather 
> superciliously,  "well, what I do is make sure I get the drivers who  
> don't  mind dogs".  I'm  beating my head against a wall, here, guys, 
> but the  cabbies  are supposed to  take us, ain't up to us to get a 
> little black book of  people who decide it's  convenient to follow the 
> law.
>  Now, here in Florida, I've only taken a few cabs  recently  as I'm 
> trying to  save money, so what can you tell me about access here,  or  
> Marian in Tampa,  etc?
>
>  There would be only two reasons that at some point I  decide  not to 
> choose a  guide dog as my main means of mobility:
>  1.  It's hard on me to see them get old and so on,  very hard.
>  2.  This access situation.
>  When I call a cab, I should not have to have my heart  in my  mouth 
> wondering  whether they're going to see me and drive away.  One  of 
> the drivers who  liked me told me that several of them who didn't like  
> dogs  would just not  come if they knew it was a dog user and say they 
> came  and I  wasn't there, or  other little tricks.
>  In Prince George's County, Maryland, the company had  some  GPs 
> system whereby  they could tell which driver was nearest to whatever  
> location I was calling  from and he would be assigned.  Now, that 
> would mean I  could very often and  would get a person for whatever 
> reason, decided to  drive  away or in some  other way treat me like 
> the scum of the Earth because  I  dare to want to be  independent and 
> use a guide dog.
>
>  Of course they're computers, the cab company's may not  be  the most 
> accurate,  I called once from my cell phone when at Dunkin''
>  Doughnuts
>  and every time I
>  called from my cell they'd say "Oh, we'll send  someone to the 
> Dunkin'
>  Doughnuts, and I had to make sure they got it before  they  hung up.
>  One day I got really frustrated and said, I don't care  who  you send 
> but make  it someone who understands English and make sure  they're  
> not an idiot."
>  I swear, one of the cab drivers thought this was  funny  because 
> whatever  dispatcher had put that under my phone number on the  
> computer, so it would  come up as "has a guide dog, wants someone who  
> understands  English, doesn't  want an idiot.".
>  Still, all of those qualifications didn't help  sometimes--smile
>
>  Rant over
>
>
>  Dan W.
>
>
>
>
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--
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com

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