[nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

Thu Sep 9 14:29:13 UTC 2010

Speeking of religion, what do people think of this minister down in Florida.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

>I think that religion is just an excuse for not taking our guide dogs 
>because the person just doesn't like dogs or something. Or else it's poorly 
>educated thingy...
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
>
>> What's up with being Muslim and not taking a service animal or dog in 
>> your
>> cab? I've had many Muslim cab drivers, and have yet to hear that excuse.
>>
>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Jewel S.
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:53 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs
>>
>> I was talking to a driver for the company I usually use for
>> non-scheduled (non-paratransit) trips. His company, Cardinal Cabs, has
>> never given me or anyone I know any trouble with accessibility. We
>> discussed the guide dog issue and what he would suggest as an
>> alternative for taxi drivers who genuinely cannot have a dog in their
>> cab, such as someone who is severely allergic. He made the comment
>> that he is severely allergic to dogs himself (what coincidence!), and
>> the last exposure he had (with medicine even) sent him intot he
>> hospital. The company he works for informed him he could not refuse a
>> customer with a service animal, but did offer a special accommodation
>> that I thik would be a good special accommodation for Muslims also.
>> All taxis have to have some way of speaking to headquarters, so if
>> they come across someone with a dog but can't (for religious or
>> medical reasons) take the dog into their taxi, they can call HQ and
>> request another cab be sent to this person ASAP. The cab driver who
>> spotted the person would be responsible for stopping and letting the
>> service dog owner of the situation and give them both the HQ phone
>> number and the employee numbers of himself and the cab driver who was
>> assigned to serve this person.
>>
>> We must remember that we are not the only disabled people out there.
>> Taxi drivers can also be disabled with severe allergies, and I think
>> it is important to give accommodation for religious reasons. America
>> is the land of the free, and that means everyone, not just some.
>> Muslims are entitled to their religious opinions, but that doesn't
>> mean they should leave that person without transportation.
>>
>> What do you guys think of this solution? As I said, this is a solution
>> currently being used by a cab driver in Raleigh, NC who is severely
>> allergic to dogs. He said that most cab drivers in the area are more
>> aware of the needs of the disabled because of the fact that our
>> paratransit system is contracted to taxis rather than buses. I tend to
>> agree. I also thinkn more cities should employ taxi drivers as
>> paratransit service providers as Raleigh does.
>>
>> I'd love to hear what you all have to add to this!
>>
>> On 9/7/10, Robert Stigile <rstigile at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> Hello Marion and All,
>>> There has been a lot of discussion on this list, about taxi cab
>>> drivers in DC.
>>> This last Washington Seminar, I had my first experience of a
>>> driver, in a long time, that thought you needed to pay a fee for
>>> having the dog in the cab.
>>> He even went as far as trying to tell me, that the sign on the
>>> back window, told you how much extra it will be for the dog.
>>> I finally gave up trying to explain to him, that there should not
>>> be a extra charge, and said, well, if you are so inclined to
>>> charge an extra fee, then I guess I will have to take it out of
>>> your tip.
>>> He backed off at that point, and when we got out of the vehicle,
>>> I had someone read him the sign, of which it said, there is no
>>> extra charge for service animals.
>>> Here in my area, specifically the San Fernando Valley, a suburb
>>> of Los Angeles, we really do not have issues, because I have
>>> filed several complaints with the Department of Transportation,
>>> as well as our Division, CAGDU, has worked very hard, around the
>>> state, to inform the agencies that oversee the taxi cab
>>> companies, that it is our right to travel with a service animal,
>>> and because of the work we have done, a lot of the issues have
>>> disappeared.
>>> Once in a while, there will be a driver who thinks, he can get a
>>> way with not picking you up, but the dispatchers can tell when
>>> the driver is doing that, and they will suspend them, I have
>>> actually heard them over the radio or while on the phone, telling
>>> a driver they will need to bring their cab in, due to their
>>> behavior towards a blind person.
>>> So, it may be tedious for a while, but you have to file
>>> complaints.
>>> I hope this helps,
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert Stigile
>>> E-mail: rstigile at sbcglobal.net
>>> Skype: robertstigile1
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:23:02 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
>>> guide dogs
>>>
>>> Will,
>>>    There is no obligation, as I have stated, to inform the
>>> company of the
>>> presence of a guide dog.  Again, if you are refused access
>>> because of your
>>> guide dog, I strongly suggest you file complaints as widely as
>>> possible.
>>> this means with the agency that regulates the cab company, your
>>> state's
>>> human rights department, law enforcement, and the DOJ.  If you
>>> ever need any
>>> assistance, please do not hesitate to call upon me!
>>>
>>> fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> 813-626-2789
>>> Blind411 at Verizon.net
>>> HTTP://NAGDU.ORG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU Mailing
>>> List"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:21 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
>>> guide dogs
>>>
>>>
>>> Many times, I have been told that they will not take people since
>>> the
>>> oporator did not inform the driver that there was a dog, etc.
>>> The
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
>>> guide dogs
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:11 PM
>>> Will,
>>> I'm not sure what you mean by needing to
>>> "go on explaining and waiting for the approval of the
>>> supervisor"! If you mean that you are advising them that you
>>> will be accompanied by a guide dog, the way to resolve this
>>> is to not tell them.  You are under no obligation to do so
>>> under the law; likewise, they are obliged under the law to
>>> transport you.  The presence of your guide dog is irrelevant,
>>> so don't tell them!
>>> What I did here in Tampa is to call about
>>> ten minutes aftter my first call to check on whether or not
>>> the call had ben dispatched.  Generally, they would tell me
>>> what cab number was dispatched to pick me up.  If the cabbie
>>> refused to carry me, I would advise him that I am blind and
>>> my dog is a service animal.  If the driver continued in the
>>> refusal, I would let him drive away so that there was a
>>> clear refusal.  In Florida, violation of the law is a second
>>> degree misdemeanor and, as per resolution 2010-25, it is now
>>> the policy of the NFB to work for the same penalties in all
>>> states.  File a complaint against the cabbie and against the
>>> company.  The company may claim that they have no control
>>> over their drivers if the drivers are independent
>>> contractors; however, the law does not see it this way and,
>>> when the owners of the cab companies find themselves paying
>>> their high-priced attorneys to defend them against charges
>>> of discrimination, they will start making some changes!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell"
>>> <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU
>>> Mailing List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:47 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
>>> with guide dogs
>>>
>>>
>>> The same thing goes on here in NYC.  If you need a
>>> cab, you can get a yellow cab in Manhattan; however, outside
>>> the city, it is a hit or miss issue with the car
>>> companies.  First, you need to call for the cab and go
>>> on explaining and waiting for approval of the supervisors,
>>> dispatchers, and drivers.  If you are trying to get a
>>> cab on the street, well, good luck.  The yellow cabs I
>>> mention above are the ones from the medallion Taxi and
>>> limousine commission (TLC).  They will usually pick you
>>> up; however, then you need to go on with the explanations
>>> that the dog is a service dog and will not harm anyone
>>> because very often you here the fear from the driver that
>>> the dog may harm them.
>>> --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind
>>> people with guide dogs
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>>> Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 7:42 AM
>>> Granted, Sherri, the wording is
>>> regrettable, but the fact is we're not
>>> going to win on some of these points and in the case
>>> of the
>>> article we'd be
>>> missing the forest for the trees pointing that out,,
>>> or however that goes.
>>> At lease when I lived in Maryland I can tell you that
>>> access was a problem
>>> when it came to cabs.
>>> And, those friends of mine who lived in DC would
>>> confirm
>>> the estimate of
>>> half the drivers passing by or not taking you.
>>>
>>> This is the height of absurdity and even shameful,
>>> that
>>> we've had eighty
>>> years of guide dog training here in the USA and it's
>>> still
>>> that way.
>>> And like it or not, nine times out of ten in my neck
>>> of the
>>> woods in
>>> Maryland it was people from the mid East, Africa and
>>> Asia,
>>> emigrants in
>>> other words, who did the worst offending in this
>>> regard.
>>> This is the first
>>> time in my life, sorry to say, that I started feeling
>>> a
>>> real hostility to
>>> emigrants, who, in my way of thinking, were dishing
>>> out to
>>> people from here
>>> worse treatment then they were getting.  They had jobs
>>> and
>>> could find them
>>> quickly again, no skin off their nose to treat a
>>> blind
>>> person like dirt.
>>> And, guys, don't start with me the old chorus of how
>>> they're afraid of dogs,
>>> etc.  I couldn't care less, it isn't a dog popularity
>>> contest we're in here.
>>> The reasons are immaterial to me, how to reverse this
>>> trend
>>> is what I'm
>>> interested in.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sad but true it was a lot of folks from other lands
>>> who did
>>> this.
>>> .
>>> Not that there weren't any good old native American
>>> born, white and black
>>> guys, who had their chance to step up to the plate and
>>> be
>>> butt holes because
>>> there were.
>>> So, you were lucky if you got drivers who knew you, or
>>> I'd
>>> take numbers of
>>> cabbies I liked and give them some business on the
>>> side,
>>> but frankly, the
>>> fact that we have to do that means there's something
>>> seriously wrong.
>>> I mention that because some blind friends there said
>>> rather superciliously,
>>> "well, what I do is make sure I get the drivers who
>>> don't
>>> mind dogs".  I'm
>>> beating my head against a wall, here, guys, but the
>>> cabbies
>>> are supposed to
>>> take us, ain't up to us to get a little black book of
>>> people who decide it's
>>> convenient to follow the law.
>>> Now, here in Florida, I've only taken a few cabs
>>> recently
>>> as I'm trying to
>>> save money, so what can you tell me about access here,
>>> or
>>> Marian in Tampa,
>>> etc?
>>>
>>> There would be only two reasons that at some point I
>>> decide
>>> not to choose a
>>> guide dog as my main means of mobility:
>>> 1.  It's hard on me to see them get old and so on,
>>> very hard.
>>> 2.  This access situation.
>>> When I call a cab, I should not have to have my heart
>>> in my
>>> mouth wondering
>>> whether they're going to see me and drive away.  One
>>> of the drivers who
>>> liked me told me that several of them who didn't like
>>> dogs
>>> would just not
>>> come if they knew it was a dog user and say they came
>>> and I
>>> wasn't there, or
>>> other little tricks.
>>> In Prince George's County, Maryland, the company had
>>> some
>>> GPs system whereby
>>> they could tell which driver was nearest to whatever
>>> location I was calling
>>> from and he would be assigned.  Now, that would mean I
>>> could very often and
>>> would get a person for whatever reason, decided to
>>> drive
>>> away or in some
>>> other way treat me like the scum of the Earth because
>>> I
>>> dare to want to be
>>> independent and use a guide dog.
>>>
>>> Of course they're computers, the cab company's may not
>>> be
>>> the most accurate,
>>> I called once from my cell phone when at Dunkin''
>>> Doughnuts
>>> and every time I
>>> called from my cell they'd say "Oh, we'll send
>>> someone to the Dunkin'
>>> Doughnuts, and I had to make sure they got it before
>>> they
>>> hung up.
>>> One day I got really frustrated and said, I don't care
>>> who
>>> you send but make
>>> it someone who understands English and make sure
>>> they're
>>> not an idiot."
>>> I swear, one of the cab drivers thought this was
>>> funny
>>> because whatever
>>> dispatcher had put that under my phone number on the
>>> computer, so it would
>>> come up as "has a guide dog, wants someone who
>>> understands
>>> English, doesn't
>>> want an idiot.".
>>> Still, all of those qualifications didn't help
>>> sometimes--smile
>>>
>>> Rant over
>>>
>>>
>>> Dan W.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> ~Jewel
>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>>
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