[nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

Buddy Brannan buddy at brannan.name
Thu Sep 9 15:09:29 UTC 2010 

He's a nut job, but that isn't really relevant to this list. 
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY



On Sep 9, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:

> Speeking of religion, what do people think of this minister down in Florida.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs
> 
> 
>> I think that religion is just an excuse for not taking our guide dogs because the person just doesn't like dogs or something. Or else it's poorly educated thingy...
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
>> 
>>> What's up with being Muslim and not taking a service animal or dog in your
>>> cab? I've had many Muslim cab drivers, and have yet to hear that excuse.
>>> 
>>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Jewel S.
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:53 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs
>>> 
>>> I was talking to a driver for the company I usually use for
>>> non-scheduled (non-paratransit) trips. His company, Cardinal Cabs, has
>>> never given me or anyone I know any trouble with accessibility. We
>>> discussed the guide dog issue and what he would suggest as an
>>> alternative for taxi drivers who genuinely cannot have a dog in their
>>> cab, such as someone who is severely allergic. He made the comment
>>> that he is severely allergic to dogs himself (what coincidence!), and
>>> the last exposure he had (with medicine even) sent him intot he
>>> hospital. The company he works for informed him he could not refuse a
>>> customer with a service animal, but did offer a special accommodation
>>> that I thik would be a good special accommodation for Muslims also.
>>> All taxis have to have some way of speaking to headquarters, so if
>>> they come across someone with a dog but can't (for religious or
>>> medical reasons) take the dog into their taxi, they can call HQ and
>>> request another cab be sent to this person ASAP. The cab driver who
>>> spotted the person would be responsible for stopping and letting the
>>> service dog owner of the situation and give them both the HQ phone
>>> number and the employee numbers of himself and the cab driver who was
>>> assigned to serve this person.
>>> 
>>> We must remember that we are not the only disabled people out there.
>>> Taxi drivers can also be disabled with severe allergies, and I think
>>> it is important to give accommodation for religious reasons. America
>>> is the land of the free, and that means everyone, not just some.
>>> Muslims are entitled to their religious opinions, but that doesn't
>>> mean they should leave that person without transportation.
>>> 
>>> What do you guys think of this solution? As I said, this is a solution
>>> currently being used by a cab driver in Raleigh, NC who is severely
>>> allergic to dogs. He said that most cab drivers in the area are more
>>> aware of the needs of the disabled because of the fact that our
>>> paratransit system is contracted to taxis rather than buses. I tend to
>>> agree. I also thinkn more cities should employ taxi drivers as
>>> paratransit service providers as Raleigh does.
>>> 
>>> I'd love to hear what you all have to add to this!
>>> 
>>> On 9/7/10, Robert Stigile <rstigile at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> Hello Marion and All,
>>>> There has been a lot of discussion on this list, about taxi cab
>>>> drivers in DC.
>>>> This last Washington Seminar, I had my first experience of a
>>>> driver, in a long time, that thought you needed to pay a fee for
>>>> having the dog in the cab.
>>>> He even went as far as trying to tell me, that the sign on the
>>>> back window, told you how much extra it will be for the dog.
>>>> I finally gave up trying to explain to him, that there should not
>>>> be a extra charge, and said, well, if you are so inclined to
>>>> charge an extra fee, then I guess I will have to take it out of
>>>> your tip.
>>>> He backed off at that point, and when we got out of the vehicle,
>>>> I had someone read him the sign, of which it said, there is no
>>>> extra charge for service animals.
>>>> Here in my area, specifically the San Fernando Valley, a suburb
>>>> of Los Angeles, we really do not have issues, because I have
>>>> filed several complaints with the Department of Transportation,
>>>> as well as our Division, CAGDU, has worked very hard, around the
>>>> state, to inform the agencies that oversee the taxi cab
>>>> companies, that it is our right to travel with a service animal,
>>>> and because of the work we have done, a lot of the issues have
>>>> disappeared.
>>>> Once in a while, there will be a driver who thinks, he can get a
>>>> way with not picking you up, but the dispatchers can tell when
>>>> the driver is doing that, and they will suspend them, I have
>>>> actually heard them over the radio or while on the phone, telling
>>>> a driver they will need to bring their cab in, due to their
>>>> behavior towards a blind person.
>>>> So, it may be tedious for a while, but you have to file
>>>> complaints.
>>>> I hope this helps,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Robert Stigile
>>>> E-mail: rstigile at sbcglobal.net
>>>> Skype: robertstigile1
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:23:02 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
>>>> guide dogs
>>>> 
>>>> Will,
>>>>   There is no obligation, as I have stated, to inform the
>>>> company of the
>>>> presence of a guide dog.  Again, if you are refused access
>>>> because of your
>>>> guide dog, I strongly suggest you file complaints as widely as
>>>> possible.
>>>> this means with the agency that regulates the cab company, your
>>>> state's
>>>> human rights department, law enforcement, and the DOJ.  If you
>>>> ever need any
>>>> assistance, please do not hesitate to call upon me!
>>>> 
>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala, President
>>>> National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>> 813-626-2789
>>>> Blind411 at Verizon.net
>>>> HTTP://NAGDU.ORG
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
>>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU Mailing
>>>> List"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:21 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
>>>> guide dogs
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Many times, I have been told that they will not take people since
>>>> the
>>>> oporator did not inform the driver that there was a dog, etc.
>>>> The
>>>> 
>>>> --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
>>>> guide dogs
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:11 PM
>>>> Will,
>>>> I'm not sure what you mean by needing to
>>>> "go on explaining and waiting for the approval of the
>>>> supervisor"! If you mean that you are advising them that you
>>>> will be accompanied by a guide dog, the way to resolve this
>>>> is to not tell them.  You are under no obligation to do so
>>>> under the law; likewise, they are obliged under the law to
>>>> transport you.  The presence of your guide dog is irrelevant,
>>>> so don't tell them!
>>>> What I did here in Tampa is to call about
>>>> ten minutes aftter my first call to check on whether or not
>>>> the call had ben dispatched.  Generally, they would tell me
>>>> what cab number was dispatched to pick me up.  If the cabbie
>>>> refused to carry me, I would advise him that I am blind and
>>>> my dog is a service animal.  If the driver continued in the
>>>> refusal, I would let him drive away so that there was a
>>>> clear refusal.  In Florida, violation of the law is a second
>>>> degree misdemeanor and, as per resolution 2010-25, it is now
>>>> the policy of the NFB to work for the same penalties in all
>>>> states.  File a complaint against the cabbie and against the
>>>> company.  The company may claim that they have no control
>>>> over their drivers if the drivers are independent
>>>> contractors; however, the law does not see it this way and,
>>>> when the owners of the cab companies find themselves paying
>>>> their high-priced attorneys to defend them against charges
>>>> of discrimination, they will start making some changes!
>>>> 
>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell"
>>>> <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
>>>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU
>>>> Mailing List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:47 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
>>>> with guide dogs
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The same thing goes on here in NYC.  If you need a
>>>> cab, you can get a yellow cab in Manhattan; however, outside
>>>> the city, it is a hit or miss issue with the car
>>>> companies.  First, you need to call for the cab and go
>>>> on explaining and waiting for approval of the supervisors,
>>>> dispatchers, and drivers.  If you are trying to get a
>>>> cab on the street, well, good luck.  The yellow cabs I
>>>> mention above are the ones from the medallion Taxi and
>>>> limousine commission (TLC).  They will usually pick you
>>>> up; however, then you need to go on with the explanations
>>>> that the dog is a service dog and will not harm anyone
>>>> because very often you here the fear from the driver that
>>>> the dog may harm them.
>>>> --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind
>>>> people with guide dogs
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>>>> Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 7:42 AM
>>>> Granted, Sherri, the wording is
>>>> regrettable, but the fact is we're not
>>>> going to win on some of these points and in the case
>>>> of the
>>>> article we'd be
>>>> missing the forest for the trees pointing that out,,
>>>> or however that goes.
>>>> At lease when I lived in Maryland I can tell you that
>>>> access was a problem
>>>> when it came to cabs.
>>>> And, those friends of mine who lived in DC would
>>>> confirm
>>>> the estimate of
>>>> half the drivers passing by or not taking you.
>>>> 
>>>> This is the height of absurdity and even shameful,
>>>> that
>>>> we've had eighty
>>>> years of guide dog training here in the USA and it's
>>>> still
>>>> that way.
>>>> And like it or not, nine times out of ten in my neck
>>>> of the
>>>> woods in
>>>> Maryland it was people from the mid East, Africa and
>>>> Asia,
>>>> emigrants in
>>>> other words, who did the worst offending in this
>>>> regard.
>>>> This is the first
>>>> time in my life, sorry to say, that I started feeling
>>>> a
>>>> real hostility to
>>>> emigrants, who, in my way of thinking, were dishing
>>>> out to
>>>> people from here
>>>> worse treatment then they were getting.  They had jobs
>>>> and
>>>> could find them
>>>> quickly again, no skin off their nose to treat a
>>>> blind
>>>> person like dirt.
>>>> And, guys, don't start with me the old chorus of how
>>>> they're afraid of dogs,
>>>> etc.  I couldn't care less, it isn't a dog popularity
>>>> contest we're in here.
>>>> The reasons are immaterial to me, how to reverse this
>>>> trend
>>>> is what I'm
>>>> interested in.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sad but true it was a lot of folks from other lands
>>>> who did
>>>> this.
>>>> .
>>>> Not that there weren't any good old native American
>>>> born, white and black
>>>> guys, who had their chance to step up to the plate and
>>>> be
>>>> butt holes because
>>>> there were.
>>>> So, you were lucky if you got drivers who knew you, or
>>>> I'd
>>>> take numbers of
>>>> cabbies I liked and give them some business on the
>>>> side,
>>>> but frankly, the
>>>> fact that we have to do that means there's something
>>>> seriously wrong.
>>>> I mention that because some blind friends there said
>>>> rather superciliously,
>>>> "well, what I do is make sure I get the drivers who
>>>> don't
>>>> mind dogs".  I'm
>>>> beating my head against a wall, here, guys, but the
>>>> cabbies
>>>> are supposed to
>>>> take us, ain't up to us to get a little black book of
>>>> people who decide it's
>>>> convenient to follow the law.
>>>> Now, here in Florida, I've only taken a few cabs
>>>> recently
>>>> as I'm trying to
>>>> save money, so what can you tell me about access here,
>>>> or
>>>> Marian in Tampa,
>>>> etc?
>>>> 
>>>> There would be only two reasons that at some point I
>>>> decide
>>>> not to choose a
>>>> guide dog as my main means of mobility:
>>>> 1.  It's hard on me to see them get old and so on,
>>>> very hard.
>>>> 2.  This access situation.
>>>> When I call a cab, I should not have to have my heart
>>>> in my
>>>> mouth wondering
>>>> whether they're going to see me and drive away.  One
>>>> of the drivers who
>>>> liked me told me that several of them who didn't like
>>>> dogs
>>>> would just not
>>>> come if they knew it was a dog user and say they came
>>>> and I
>>>> wasn't there, or
>>>> other little tricks.
>>>> In Prince George's County, Maryland, the company had
>>>> some
>>>> GPs system whereby
>>>> they could tell which driver was nearest to whatever
>>>> location I was calling
>>>> from and he would be assigned.  Now, that would mean I
>>>> could very often and
>>>> would get a person for whatever reason, decided to
>>>> drive
>>>> away or in some
>>>> other way treat me like the scum of the Earth because
>>>> I
>>>> dare to want to be
>>>> independent and use a guide dog.
>>>> 
>>>> Of course they're computers, the cab company's may not
>>>> be
>>>> the most accurate,
>>>> I called once from my cell phone when at Dunkin''
>>>> Doughnuts
>>>> and every time I
>>>> called from my cell they'd say "Oh, we'll send
>>>> someone to the Dunkin'
>>>> Doughnuts, and I had to make sure they got it before
>>>> they
>>>> hung up.
>>>> One day I got really frustrated and said, I don't care
>>>> who
>>>> you send but make
>>>> it someone who understands English and make sure
>>>> they're
>>>> not an idiot."
>>>> I swear, one of the cab drivers thought this was
>>>> funny
>>>> because whatever
>>>> dispatcher had put that under my phone number on the
>>>> computer, so it would
>>>> come up as "has a guide dog, wants someone who
>>>> understands
>>>> English, doesn't
>>>> want an idiot.".
>>>> Still, all of those qualifications didn't help
>>>> sometimes--smile
>>>> 
>>>> Rant over
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Dan W.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> ~Jewel
>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>>> 
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>> 
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