[nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

Thu Sep 9 21:34:25 UTC 2010

just announced on all the news that he will not be doing it.

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs

> Er...  Not specifically guide dog-related, but I can't help answering.
> /smile/
>
> It scares the ever-loving, er, stuff out of me.  The fact that we validate
> this, er, I can't use those words on a public list, by talking about him 
> on
> the news as if he means something, that we interview him on national
> television as if he means something and that we accept it and even are
> willing to validate it....  And add that to the big flap about a mosque
> being built according to law and civil codes, then another being burned 
> down
> while it was being built and the public rhetoric on and on and on...
>
> What he will do is what he will do, and in America, he has a right to do 
> so.
> Only it seems to me we've made it national, and that sort of thing can be
> world-changing.  I am not liking the possibilities here.
>
> To make it guide dog related, I will say that I am very glad I've trained 
> my
> dog and me to hike together and that I have a nice, sturdy sports harness
> for her!  Also that my rural roots mean that I have a good set of survival
> skills for the agrarian, hunter/gatherer lifestyle.  Just in case it 
> becomes
> inconvenient and unwise to remain an effete city-slicker.  /smile/
>
> Then again, DD and I have been able to spend a good deal of our spare
> conversational time dusting off our knowledge of military history and
> arguing about how the war will be fought...   Hope it turns out to be an
> entertaining intellectual exercise on our part.
>
> Burning the holy book of a large and powerful world-wide religion is just 
> a
> really, really bad idea.
>
> Also, I cringe at the offense to every Moslem, especially the American
> Moslems right now.  There is no excuse for behavior as egregious as what
> this bozo proposes to do.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Mark J. Cadigan
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 7:29 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs
>
> Speeking of religion, what do people think of this minister down in 
> Florida.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide dogs
>
>
> >I think that religion is just an excuse for not taking our guide dogs
> >because the person just doesn't like dogs or something. Or else it's 
> >poorly
>
> >educated thingy...
> > --
> > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> > Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 9, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Cathryn Bonnette wrote:
> >
> >> What's up with being Muslim and not taking a service animal or dog in
> >> your
> >> cab? I've had many Muslim cab drivers, and have yet to hear that 
> >> excuse.
> >>
> >> Cathryn (& Abby)
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Jewel S.
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 6:53 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with guide 
> >> dogs
> >>
> >> I was talking to a driver for the company I usually use for
> >> non-scheduled (non-paratransit) trips. His company, Cardinal Cabs, has
> >> never given me or anyone I know any trouble with accessibility. We
> >> discussed the guide dog issue and what he would suggest as an
> >> alternative for taxi drivers who genuinely cannot have a dog in their
> >> cab, such as someone who is severely allergic. He made the comment
> >> that he is severely allergic to dogs himself (what coincidence!), and
> >> the last exposure he had (with medicine even) sent him intot he
> >> hospital. The company he works for informed him he could not refuse a
> >> customer with a service animal, but did offer a special accommodation
> >> that I thik would be a good special accommodation for Muslims also.
> >> All taxis have to have some way of speaking to headquarters, so if
> >> they come across someone with a dog but can't (for religious or
> >> medical reasons) take the dog into their taxi, they can call HQ and
> >> request another cab be sent to this person ASAP. The cab driver who
> >> spotted the person would be responsible for stopping and letting the
> >> service dog owner of the situation and give them both the HQ phone
> >> number and the employee numbers of himself and the cab driver who was
> >> assigned to serve this person.
> >>
> >> We must remember that we are not the only disabled people out there.
> >> Taxi drivers can also be disabled with severe allergies, and I think
> >> it is important to give accommodation for religious reasons. America
> >> is the land of the free, and that means everyone, not just some.
> >> Muslims are entitled to their religious opinions, but that doesn't
> >> mean they should leave that person without transportation.
> >>
> >> What do you guys think of this solution? As I said, this is a solution
> >> currently being used by a cab driver in Raleigh, NC who is severely
> >> allergic to dogs. He said that most cab drivers in the area are more
> >> aware of the needs of the disabled because of the fact that our
> >> paratransit system is contracted to taxis rather than buses. I tend to
> >> agree. I also thinkn more cities should employ taxi drivers as
> >> paratransit service providers as Raleigh does.
> >>
> >> I'd love to hear what you all have to add to this!
> >>
> >> On 9/7/10, Robert Stigile <rstigile at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>> Hello Marion and All,
> >>> There has been a lot of discussion on this list, about taxi cab
> >>> drivers in DC.
> >>> This last Washington Seminar, I had my first experience of a
> >>> driver, in a long time, that thought you needed to pay a fee for
> >>> having the dog in the cab.
> >>> He even went as far as trying to tell me, that the sign on the
> >>> back window, told you how much extra it will be for the dog.
> >>> I finally gave up trying to explain to him, that there should not
> >>> be a extra charge, and said, well, if you are so inclined to
> >>> charge an extra fee, then I guess I will have to take it out of
> >>> your tip.
> >>> He backed off at that point, and when we got out of the vehicle,
> >>> I had someone read him the sign, of which it said, there is no
> >>> extra charge for service animals.
> >>> Here in my area, specifically the San Fernando Valley, a suburb
> >>> of Los Angeles, we really do not have issues, because I have
> >>> filed several complaints with the Department of Transportation,
> >>> as well as our Division, CAGDU, has worked very hard, around the
> >>> state, to inform the agencies that oversee the taxi cab
> >>> companies, that it is our right to travel with a service animal,
> >>> and because of the work we have done, a lot of the issues have
> >>> disappeared.
> >>> Once in a while, there will be a driver who thinks, he can get a
> >>> way with not picking you up, but the dispatchers can tell when
> >>> the driver is doing that, and they will suspend them, I have
> >>> actually heard them over the radio or while on the phone, telling
> >>> a driver they will need to bring their cab in, due to their
> >>> behavior towards a blind person.
> >>> So, it may be tedious for a while, but you have to file
> >>> complaints.
> >>> I hope this helps,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Robert Stigile
> >>> E-mail: rstigile at sbcglobal.net
> >>> Skype: robertstigile1
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net
> >>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date sent: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:23:02 -0400
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
> >>> guide dogs
> >>>
> >>> Will,
> >>>    There is no obligation, as I have stated, to inform the
> >>> company of the
> >>> presence of a guide dog.  Again, if you are refused access
> >>> because of your
> >>> guide dog, I strongly suggest you file complaints as widely as
> >>> possible.
> >>> this means with the agency that regulates the cab company, your
> >>> state's
> >>> human rights department, law enforcement, and the DOJ.  If you
> >>> ever need any
> >>> assistance, please do not hesitate to call upon me!
> >>>
> >>> fraternally yours,
> >>> Marion Gwizdala, President
> >>> National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >>> National Federation of the Blind
> >>> 813-626-2789
> >>> Blind411 at Verizon.net
> >>> HTTP://NAGDU.ORG
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "William ODonnell" <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
> >>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU Mailing
> >>> List"
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:21 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
> >>> guide dogs
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Many times, I have been told that they will not take people since
> >>> the
> >>> oporator did not inform the driver that there was a dog, etc.
> >>> The
> >>>
> >>> --- On Mon, 9/6/10, Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> From: Marion Gwizdala <blind411 at verizon.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
> >>> guide dogs
> >>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>> Users"
> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:11 PM
> >>> Will,
> >>> I'm not sure what you mean by needing to
> >>> "go on explaining and waiting for the approval of the
> >>> supervisor"! If you mean that you are advising them that you
> >>> will be accompanied by a guide dog, the way to resolve this
> >>> is to not tell them.  You are under no obligation to do so
> >>> under the law; likewise, they are obliged under the law to
> >>> transport you.  The presence of your guide dog is irrelevant,
> >>> so don't tell them!
> >>> What I did here in Tampa is to call about
> >>> ten minutes aftter my first call to check on whether or not
> >>> the call had ben dispatched.  Generally, they would tell me
> >>> what cab number was dispatched to pick me up.  If the cabbie
> >>> refused to carry me, I would advise him that I am blind and
> >>> my dog is a service animal.  If the driver continued in the
> >>> refusal, I would let him drive away so that there was a
> >>> clear refusal.  In Florida, violation of the law is a second
> >>> degree misdemeanor and, as per resolution 2010-25, it is now
> >>> the policy of the NFB to work for the same penalties in all
> >>> states.  File a complaint against the cabbie and against the
> >>> company.  The company may claim that they have no control
> >>> over their drivers if the drivers are independent
> >>> contractors; however, the law does not see it this way and,
> >>> when the owners of the cab companies find themselves paying
> >>> their high-priced attorneys to defend them against charges
> >>> of discrimination, they will start making some changes!
> >>>
> >>> Fraternally yours,
> >>> Marion Gwizdala
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William ODonnell"
> >>> <william.odonnell1 at yahoo.com
> >>> To: "the National Association of Guide Dog UsersNAGDU
> >>> Mailing List" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>> Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 9:47 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
> >>> with guide dogs
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The same thing goes on here in NYC.  If you need a
> >>> cab, you can get a yellow cab in Manhattan; however, outside
> >>> the city, it is a hit or miss issue with the car
> >>> companies.  First, you need to call for the cab and go
> >>> on explaining and waiting for approval of the supervisors,
> >>> dispatchers, and drivers.  If you are trying to get a
> >>> cab on the street, well, good luck.  The yellow cabs I
> >>> mention above are the ones from the medallion Taxi and
> >>> limousine commission (TLC).  They will usually pick you
> >>> up; however, then you need to go on with the explanations
> >>> that the dog is a service dog and will not harm anyone
> >>> because very often you here the fear from the driver that
> >>> the dog may harm them.
> >>> --- On Sun, 9/5/10, Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> From: Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind
> >>> people with guide dogs
> >>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
> >>> Guide Dog Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>> Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 7:42 AM
> >>> Granted, Sherri, the wording is
> >>> regrettable, but the fact is we're not
> >>> going to win on some of these points and in the case
> >>> of the
> >>> article we'd be
> >>> missing the forest for the trees pointing that out,,
> >>> or however that goes.
> >>> At lease when I lived in Maryland I can tell you that
> >>> access was a problem
> >>> when it came to cabs.
> >>> And, those friends of mine who lived in DC would
> >>> confirm
> >>> the estimate of
> >>> half the drivers passing by or not taking you.
> >>>
> >>> This is the height of absurdity and even shameful,
> >>> that
> >>> we've had eighty
> >>> years of guide dog training here in the USA and it's
> >>> still
> >>> that way.
> >>> And like it or not, nine times out of ten in my neck
> >>> of the
> >>> woods in
> >>> Maryland it was people from the mid East, Africa and
> >>> Asia,
> >>> emigrants in
> >>> other words, who did the worst offending in this
> >>> regard.
> >>> This is the first
> >>> time in my life, sorry to say, that I started feeling
> >>> a
> >>> real hostility to
> >>> emigrants, who, in my way of thinking, were dishing
> >>> out to
> >>> people from here
> >>> worse treatment then they were getting.  They had jobs
> >>> and
> >>> could find them
> >>> quickly again, no skin off their nose to treat a
> >>> blind
> >>> person like dirt.
> >>> And, guys, don't start with me the old chorus of how
> >>> they're afraid of dogs,
> >>> etc.  I couldn't care less, it isn't a dog popularity
> >>> contest we're in here.
> >>> The reasons are immaterial to me, how to reverse this
> >>> trend
> >>> is what I'm
> >>> interested in.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Sad but true it was a lot of folks from other lands
> >>> who did
> >>> this.
> >>> .
> >>> Not that there weren't any good old native American
> >>> born, white and black
> >>> guys, who had their chance to step up to the plate and
> >>> be
> >>> butt holes because
> >>> there were.
> >>> So, you were lucky if you got drivers who knew you, or
> >>> I'd
> >>> take numbers of
> >>> cabbies I liked and give them some business on the
> >>> side,
> >>> but frankly, the
> >>> fact that we have to do that means there's something
> >>> seriously wrong.
> >>> I mention that because some blind friends there said
> >>> rather superciliously,
> >>> "well, what I do is make sure I get the drivers who
> >>> don't
> >>> mind dogs".  I'm
> >>> beating my head against a wall, here, guys, but the
> >>> cabbies
> >>> are supposed to
> >>> take us, ain't up to us to get a little black book of
> >>> people who decide it's
> >>> convenient to follow the law.
> >>> Now, here in Florida, I've only taken a few cabs
> >>> recently
> >>> as I'm trying to
> >>> save money, so what can you tell me about access here,
> >>> or
> >>> Marian in Tampa,
> >>> etc?
> >>>
> >>> There would be only two reasons that at some point I
> >>> decide
> >>> not to choose a
> >>> guide dog as my main means of mobility:
> >>> 1.  It's hard on me to see them get old and so on,
> >>> very hard.
> >>> 2.  This access situation.
> >>> When I call a cab, I should not have to have my heart
> >>> in my
> >>> mouth wondering
> >>> whether they're going to see me and drive away.  One
> >>> of the drivers who
> >>> liked me told me that several of them who didn't like
> >>> dogs
> >>> would just not
> >>> come if they knew it was a dog user and say they came
> >>> and I
> >>> wasn't there, or
> >>> other little tricks.
> >>> In Prince George's County, Maryland, the company had
> >>> some
> >>> GPs system whereby
> >>> they could tell which driver was nearest to whatever
> >>> location I was calling
> >>> from and he would be assigned.  Now, that would mean I
> >>> could very often and
> >>> would get a person for whatever reason, decided to
> >>> drive
> >>> away or in some
> >>> other way treat me like the scum of the Earth because
> >>> I
> >>> dare to want to be
> >>> independent and use a guide dog.
> >>>
> >>> Of course they're computers, the cab company's may not
> >>> be
> >>> the most accurate,
> >>> I called once from my cell phone when at Dunkin''
> >>> Doughnuts
> >>> and every time I
> >>> called from my cell they'd say "Oh, we'll send
> >>> someone to the Dunkin'
> >>> Doughnuts, and I had to make sure they got it before
> >>> they
> >>> hung up.
> >>> One day I got really frustrated and said, I don't care
> >>> who
> >>> you send but make
> >>> it someone who understands English and make sure
> >>> they're
> >>> not an idiot."
> >>> I swear, one of the cab drivers thought this was
> >>> funny
> >>> because whatever
> >>> dispatcher had put that under my phone number on the
> >>> computer, so it would
> >>> come up as "has a guide dog, wants someone who
> >>> understands
> >>> English, doesn't
> >>> want an idiot.".
> >>> Still, all of those qualifications didn't help
> >>> sometimes--smile
> >>>
> >>> Rant over
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dan W.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>
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> >> .com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> ~Jewel
> >> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> >> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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