[nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people withguide dogs

Thu Sep 9 23:25:20 UTC 2010

If you do decide to be a cab driver, Tami, please put a sign on your cab
door so I know not to get in your cab.  Don't want the blind driving the
blind around. Lol
sharon

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:09 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
withguide dogs

Rebecca,

Well, I think the plumbers came into it all as metaphors, an example of
things blind people can do for a living that they are only recently allowed
to.  Or something like that.  It wasn't my metaphor.  /smile/

As I'm reading the discussion -- and thinking the issue through, since I do
take taxis and would take more if I could afford it -- I keep thinking of
the most apt metaphor:  If I am blind, and I want to drive a cab for
aliving, and there's a job opening for a cab driver in my area where there
are no other jobs for me, and I apply for the job...  Should I be given the
job in light of my disability?  Should I expect everyone else to accommodate
me then because of my disability and how it affects my ability to perform
the duties of the job?

I do know how to drive, after all.  Dang good driver.  I know my way around,
I can follow verbal instructions and have good verbal communications skills.
Why shouldn't I drive a cab for a living?

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:13 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
withguide dogs

Jewel, 
You are still saying that it's okay to break the law. Why would you
condone that? Great to be all warm and fuzzy, but why should my choice
of mobility aide mean I need to accomidate i.e. do what someone with an
undocumentet disability wants? 
Cab drivers aren't my friends in the context of going someplace, I am
hiring them to do a job. Law says they must accomidate me. That's just
the way it is. 
You're right, having a support system is good. Still, you ever had to go
to the emergency vet with a puking dog at two in the morning? Ever had
to go to a surgery center at five in the morning and not know how long
you'll be?Ever just not want to be beholden to friends and neighbors?
Ever had neighbors who also have young families? 
Having a social support system is fine. Using people is not. Why would
you think it's okay to "call on friends and neighbors" but not okay to
make someone follow the law ina professional capacity?
Your deaf friend is a friend, not a business transaction. How is that
relivant? And I still don't get how plumbers tie in here. I'd expect a
plumber blind or sighted to do his job. If he was a friend and said "I
didn't see that beer to hand it to you" fine, he's a friend, he isn't
required to hand me a beer. If he is hired to fix aproblem, I expect him
to fix it. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jewel S.
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:52 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
with guide dogs

No, I do not have a guide dog yet. I will be going next Spring/Summer
(May or June) to train with my first. I don't think that having a
guide dog personally will make any difference in my attitutde. If I
really need to get somewhere urgently, I call a friend or ask a
neighbour to drive me. A social support group is very important.

Here in Raleigh, the only taxis I take are the paratransit taxis.
Individuals are assigned to a company, and that company picks them up
like the bus would in other places. Correction, that's not the only
taxi I take, but it's rare for me to take another due to price. When I
want to go anywhere via taxi that isn't scheduled, I just call my
favourite companies, Cardinal, Yellow, Green, Blue, and ask who has
someone closest. I know already that Yellow and Cardinal have no
problems with guide dogs and train their drivers, save the one who is
severely allergic and I think his special accommodation is possible
and appropriate, especially since Cardinal is such a large company
that they *can* get a cab to most locations within 10
minutes....sometimes less! I called them once for a pick-up, and a cab
was there less than five minutes less.

The doctor office situation, no I wouldn't take the "bring someone"
thing. However, there is never just one person in a doctor's office. I
would tell her to get another nurse or an administrative worker to
come and help me fill out the paperwork. I also insist that it be done
in the examination room, for my own privacy. Calling another person is
a simple accommodation for many disabilities that can't accommodate
other special needs, and I've seen it before, so why not do it with
cab drivers?

The reason plumbers and engineers came into the message was this.
Someone said that people with severe allergies should find another
job. I said they have as much right to be a taxi driver as a blind
person does being a plumber or engineer, which is to say, they have
all the right in the world. Would you tell a blind person that they
need to go find another job instead of becoming a plumber? What about
doctor?

I just feel that many people are not willing to accommodate the
special needs of people with a disability that is not their own. For
example, I was talking to some people at the bus stop the other day. I
asked if they minded if I turned on my audio book (that's how it got
started), and the lady next to me said "I don't mind. I wouldn't be
able to hear it anyway. I'm deaf." and we started discussing what she
finds easy and difficult about the buses, because I enjoy learning
about other disabilities and finding out what sort of accommodations
are important to them...I believe in Universal Design wherever
possible. Anyway, she told me that sometimes the hardest thing is
people either not believing she's disabled because she reads lips so
well, or they shout at her or move their lips in exaggerated
movements. She also said that the worst she had seen was several blind
people, who used a huge number of gestures (not sign language, just
gestures) and spoke loud and slow, making it extremely hard for her to
understand. These two blind people, whoever they were, are a prime
example of why the stereotype is that blind people and deaf people
cannot converse, let alone become friends. Shell, the deaf lady I was
talking about, is my new friend, and her stop is only two before mine,
so I'm sure I'll see her around a lot more now that we've met.

I think it is important to remember that we are all different. There
was a survey in the mid-90's that stated ath around 60% (I think it
was 62) of blind people have some other form of disability in addition
to visiual impairment. And yet I see blind people putting down one
another because of their additional disabilities, and not willing to
accommodate each other except for blindness. A great example is my
boyfriend, who is dyslexic, but his Braille instructor refused to
consider his dyslexia when teaching him Braille, and now he and I are
working on it, along with a Hadley class with a teacher who
understands Braille dyslexia. the original instructor told him that
"dyslexia has no place in Braille." It may not, but it sticks its ugly
nose in anyway!

On 9/9/10, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
> Jewel,
> If the cab drivers would log that they have  severe allergy, that's
> fine. Thing is, the y won't as it takes away from the almighty dollar.
> Finally, you can't make the company have a cab there "within ten
> minutes" same as you can't "make your husband get home on time" "make
> your kid stop crying" "make your boyfriend like your sister" you get
the
> idea.
> What you are agreeing to is that people break the law. Why is that
okay
> with you?
> Finally, people call cabs to serve urgent needs. Ten minutes may
indeed
> make a world of difference.
> Once a cab has left, you're screwed The driver or dispatch can say
> anything they want.
> Finally how does religion play into this? If I want or need to do
> something religious, I do it on my own time.
> Finally, I have no earthly idea how plumbers and engineers came into
> this discussion. Would you hire a plumber who said "I didn't see that
> leak, I'm blind" Their job is to find and resolve leaks, blindness
> wouldn't be an excuse for *not* doing this.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Jewel S.
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:37 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people with
> guide dogs
>
> I have to politely disagree.  A person with a severe allergy to dogs
> has a smuch right to be a taxi driver as a blind person has the right
> to be an engineer or plumber.
>
> And if the allergy is a disability, then it is not a possibility of
> not having a job based on that allergy. That would be discrimination
> under the ADA and a possible lawsuit.
>
> See, what I think I see is that people want their accommodations met,
> and don't give a rat's butt if it interferes with the needs of someone
> else. If a person can handle a dog nearby for a few moments, but can't
> handle the dander on the cab's upholstery for the hours that it will
> remain after, why shouldn't they be allowed to refuse based on special
> accommodation and provide alternative transportation.
>
> personally, my feeling is that if it is such a major concern, call the
> company beforehand and request a driver that isn't allergic. Why hail
> a cab off the streets in this day of cell phones? Just call the
> company and ask for a cab, and it'll be there in 5 minutes.
>
> If the problem is with a particular company, then don't call that
> company, and tell eveyrone you know about the problem you had with
> them. The fewer clients, the less likely that company will be around.
>
> Me, if I were told I couldn't ride because of a severe allergy, I'd
> say "That's fine, as long as yuo have a second taxi here within 10
> minutes. 10 minutes will not make a difference. If it is going to make
> a difference between getting on time to an interview or work and being
> late, you need to give yourself more time! Ten minutes is not enough
> leave-way.
>
> I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I am willing
> to "bend over backward" as you call it. I am willing to accommodate
> other people's special needs in return for them accommodating mine.
> How can we say we want our accommdations met, but not meet the
> accommodations of others? Isn't that rather hypocritical?
>
> On 9/9/10, Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net> wrote:
>> Well, my friend:
>> I am going to sound combative, but I am expressing an honestly held
> opinion,
>> an opinion which is not meant in any way to belittle you as I'm sure
> you're
>> a nice person and so on.
>> Give me a break, is my opinion.
>> I think that a lot of us are really too much in to bending over
> backwards to
>> accommodate, in quotes.
>> Malarkey.
>> It is necessary for companies, entities to accommodate the presence
of
> a
>> service animal because of the special status service dogs, etc. have
> been
>> given in society.  This is the result of long struggle and advocacy.
>> We are not the ones to do the accommodating, jeeze.
>>
>> I will quote both my sister, who has bad dog and cat allergies, and a
> doctor
>> I spoke to.
>> The instance of dog allergies is quite a bit less than sever cat
> allergies.
>> The instances of severe medical consequences from dog dander is
> actually
>> rare.
>> Discomfort someone might have is, and frankly should be, none of my
> concern.
>> And now the doctor: he told me that if a dog dander allergy were
> severe,
>> then the person would react to even dander brought in on someone's
> cloths,
>> packages, shoes, etc.  So, where do we draw the line.
>>
>> I base a lot of my opinions on the experience with my sister, c, who
> can't
>> have dogs and cats in her house and so on.. She has been a royal burr
> in my
>> rear since I got a dog, but we've had discussions and she's in total
>> agreement about the guide dog  access issue.
>>
>> What is this, because I have a guide dog I have to spend my whole
life
>> bending over backwards to be considerate.
>>  I don't think so. Now, you are saying,  don't you want to be
> considerate?
>> Yes, but only in the same way I'm considerate to everyone everywhere
I
> go,
>> not a special consideration for dumb ass cab drivers who have a thing
> or an
>> imagined thing about dogs.  Boy, that felt good, let it all out
> Dan--lol.
>>
>> My consideration is shown in my brushing my dog, in my keeping him
>> well-behaved, etc.
>>
>> If these guys would just suck it up and do their job then life would
> be much
>> simpler.
>>
>> A severe allergy, as I think I stated so wordily in another
>> message--smile--if it is a disability would require a record of such
> and
>> drivers I've talked to don't want that because then it could be a
> reason for
>> them not to have the job in the first place.
>>
>> I'm not sure either, Jewel, that that's such an original
> accommodation, in
>> quotes.
>> Plenty of drivers in Maryland told me I'd have to have another cab or
> they
>> called dispatch.  The point is it doesn't wash.
>> As long as a significant amount of the guide dog using population
> feels that
>> we're walking on eggs and the mere fact of being allowed treatment
> with
>> dignity is such a hardship for the public, the longer this will go
on.
>>
>> Now, I need my coffee.
>>
>> Remember, the only thing I know about you or anyone else here is what
> you
>> say on the list, so please don't take it personally.
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Dan W. and the big black bear, I mean dog, Carter
>>
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>
>
> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
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-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com

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