[nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people withguide dogs
Steve Johnson
stevencjohnson at centurytel.net
Fri Sep 10 12:45:00 UTC 2010
Marion,
I would question one's *making it up* as it is still important to point out
that one can still develop allergies even after they are on the job, thus
the reason for my post yesterday stating that one would need to initiate the
reasonable accommodation process thus allowing the employer to request
further medical documentation to determine reasonableness of the
accommodation as related to the disability. It appears from this post, that
it is a black and white thing and that an allergy must be pre-existing and
on-record, but on the contrary, it is like some conditions in that one can
acquire them at any point in their lives...even blindness.
Just my two cents worth for the day.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 6:57 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
withguide dogs
Jewel,
The cab companies in Tampa were ordered to inquire about allergies to
dog dander in their application documents and, if the applicant indicated
such an allergy, was required to present documentation by a medical
authority that such allergy resulted in a disabling condition under the
definition of "disability" in the ADA. In this way, if someone denied access
to a person accompanied by a service animal and claimed such access denial
was due to a severe allergy, the company and legal authorities could check
the record before taking disciplinary action.
According to the Public Transit Authority that regulates and licenses
taxicab companies and drivers in Hillsborough County, there are no drivers
that meet this test among the more than 1500 hack licenses active in the
county. Not only does this support the rarity of an allergy that results in
a disabling condition (<.05%), it also tells me that, if a cabbie attempts
to deny a person with a service animal access to their cab in Hillsborough
County, they are making it up!
fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
withguide dogs
>I am no condoning outright refusal by a company, and I am not speaking
>of people with undocumented disabilities. There are documentations for
>allergies if they are severe enough to be a disability. I knew a girl
>in high school who was deathly allergic to cigareette smoke. This was
>a documented allergy that was considered a disability because the
>repeated allergic reactions from cigarrete smoke on clohtes, hair,
>furniutre, etc. caused her to be impaired in her living. The same
>could be applied to a person who is severely allergic of dogs. Why
>must they be denied the job of a cab driver just because they *might*
>encounter a service dog.
>
> The company I go to is owned and run by a Muslim who has no trouble
> with dogs, so let's not assume that everyone
>
> I think it's time to simply agree to disagree. There are people who
> feel that the whole world should accommodate their needs with no
> consideration for the needs of others, there are other show are simply
> tired of being refused access because of their diability or service
> animal. There are still others who wish to work with others to
> compromise as much as possible. Which category do you belong in? I
> think the second.
>
> And yes, I have had to grab a taxi to the emergency room at 2am
> because my boyfriend had a diabetic crash. I have had to knock on a
> neighbour's door to ask for help getting my cat, who cut her paw open
> on an exposed nail, to the vet hospital down the road. I have had to
> wait outside a grocery store with ice cream melting and meat
> defrosting because the cab who was supposed to come never did. I have
> also had good experiences, and you have to take the god with the bad.
> At least in my city, the problem of taxi drivers not picking a person
> up because they are blind or have a service animal is not 50% or
> anything near it. Here, the taxi drivers are given instructions about
> disabilities by Accesssible Raleigh Transportation, the paratransit
> service. Even the ones who aren't sure know something. One driver said
> he didn't know what the laws were, but he knew that he had to ask if
> the dog was a service animal, and if he thought it wasn't, he could
> ask only what the dog does for the person (like alerting to seizures,
> picking up objects, guiding, etc). He said that he knows he has to
> take all service anmals, and the majority of drivers around here are
> the same way.
>
> I'm not conding breaking the law. I am just asking that we take other
> people into consideration. Why must it be either you get your way
> totally or not at all? Compromise is important.
>
> That's all I am going to say on the subject. Any furhter discussion
> will not find me part of it for fear that it will spiral into
> name-calling hateful argument.
>
> On 9/9/10, Sharon James <sjames at compsolbiz.com> wrote:
>> If you do decide to be a cab driver, Tami, please put a sign on your
>> cab door so I know not to get in your cab. Don't want the blind
>> driving the blind around. Lol sharon
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:09 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
>> withguide dogs
>>
>> Rebecca,
>>
>> Well, I think the plumbers came into it all as metaphors, an example
>> of things blind people can do for a living that they are only
>> recently allowed to. Or something like that. It wasn't my metaphor.
>> /smile/
>>
>> As I'm reading the discussion -- and thinking the issue through,
>> since I do take taxis and would take more if I could afford it -- I
>> keep thinking of the most apt metaphor: If I am blind, and I want to
>> drive a cab for aliving, and there's a job opening for a cab driver
>> in my area where there are no other jobs for me, and I apply for the
>> job... Should I be given the job in light of my disability? Should
>> I expect everyone else to accommodate me then because of my
>> disability and how it affects my ability to perform the duties of the
>> job?
>>
>> I do know how to drive, after all. Dang good driver. I know my way
>> around, I can follow verbal instructions and have good verbal
>> communications skills.
>> Why shouldn't I drive a cab for a living?
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:13 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
>> withguide dogs
>>
>> Jewel,
>> You are still saying that it's okay to break the law. Why would you
>> condone that? Great to be all warm and fuzzy, but why should my
>> choice of mobility aide mean I need to accomidate i.e. do what
>> someone with an undocumentet disability wants?
>> Cab drivers aren't my friends in the context of going someplace, I am
>> hiring them to do a job. Law says they must accomidate me. That's
>> just the way it is.
>> You're right, having a support system is good. Still, you ever had to
>> go to the emergency vet with a puking dog at two in the morning? Ever
>> had to go to a surgery center at five in the morning and not know how
>> long you'll be?Ever just not want to be beholden to friends and
neighbors?
>> Ever had neighbors who also have young families?
>> Having a social support system is fine. Using people is not. Why
>> would you think it's okay to "call on friends and neighbors" but not
>> okay to make someone follow the law ina professional capacity?
>> Your deaf friend is a friend, not a business transaction. How is that
>> relivant? And I still don't get how plumbers tie in here. I'd expect
>> a plumber blind or sighted to do his job. If he was a friend and said
>> "I didn't see that beer to hand it to you" fine, he's a friend, he
>> isn't required to hand me a beer. If he is hired to fix aproblem, I
>> expect him to fix it.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jewel S.
>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 11:52 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
>> with guide dogs
>>
>> No, I do not have a guide dog yet. I will be going next Spring/Summer
>> (May or June) to train with my first. I don't think that having a
>> guide dog personally will make any difference in my attitutde. If I
>> really need to get somewhere urgently, I call a friend or ask a
>> neighbour to drive me. A social support group is very important.
>>
>> Here in Raleigh, the only taxis I take are the paratransit taxis.
>> Individuals are assigned to a company, and that company picks them up
>> like the bus would in other places. Correction, that's not the only
>> taxi I take, but it's rare for me to take another due to price. When
>> I want to go anywhere via taxi that isn't scheduled, I just call my
>> favourite companies, Cardinal, Yellow, Green, Blue, and ask who has
>> someone closest. I know already that Yellow and Cardinal have no
>> problems with guide dogs and train their drivers, save the one who is
>> severely allergic and I think his special accommodation is possible
>> and appropriate, especially since Cardinal is such a large company
>> that they *can* get a cab to most locations within 10
>> minutes....sometimes less! I called them once for a pick-up, and a
>> cab was there less than five minutes less.
>>
>> The doctor office situation, no I wouldn't take the "bring someone"
>> thing. However, there is never just one person in a doctor's office.
>> I would tell her to get another nurse or an administrative worker to
>> come and help me fill out the paperwork. I also insist that it be
>> done in the examination room, for my own privacy. Calling another
>> person is a simple accommodation for many disabilities that can't
>> accommodate other special needs, and I've seen it before, so why not
>> do it with cab drivers?
>>
>> The reason plumbers and engineers came into the message was this.
>> Someone said that people with severe allergies should find another
>> job. I said they have as much right to be a taxi driver as a blind
>> person does being a plumber or engineer, which is to say, they have
>> all the right in the world. Would you tell a blind person that they
>> need to go find another job instead of becoming a plumber? What about
>> doctor?
>>
>> I just feel that many people are not willing to accommodate the
>> special needs of people with a disability that is not their own. For
>> example, I was talking to some people at the bus stop the other day.
>> I asked if they minded if I turned on my audio book (that's how it
>> got started), and the lady next to me said "I don't mind. I wouldn't
>> be able to hear it anyway. I'm deaf." and we started discussing what
>> she finds easy and difficult about the buses, because I enjoy
>> learning about other disabilities and finding out what sort of
>> accommodations are important to them...I believe in Universal Design
>> wherever possible. Anyway, she told me that sometimes the hardest
>> thing is people either not believing she's disabled because she reads
>> lips so well, or they shout at her or move their lips in exaggerated
>> movements. She also said that the worst she had seen was several
>> blind people, who used a huge number of gestures (not sign language,
>> just
>> gestures) and spoke loud and slow, making it extremely hard for her
>> to understand. These two blind people, whoever they were, are a prime
>> example of why the stereotype is that blind people and deaf people
>> cannot converse, let alone become friends. Shell, the deaf lady I was
>> talking about, is my new friend, and her stop is only two before
>> mine, so I'm sure I'll see her around a lot more now that we've met.
>>
>> I think it is important to remember that we are all different. There
>> was a survey in the mid-90's that stated ath around 60% (I think it
>> was 62) of blind people have some other form of disability in
>> addition to visiual impairment. And yet I see blind people putting
>> down one another because of their additional disabilities, and not
>> willing to accommodate each other except for blindness. A great
>> example is my boyfriend, who is dyslexic, but his Braille instructor
>> refused to consider his dyslexia when teaching him Braille, and now
>> he and I are working on it, along with a Hadley class with a teacher
>> who understands Braille dyslexia. the original instructor told him
>> that "dyslexia has no place in Braille." It may not, but it sticks
>> its ugly nose in anyway!
>>
>> On 9/9/10, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
>>> Jewel,
>>> If the cab drivers would log that they have severe allergy, that's
>>> fine. Thing is, the y won't as it takes away from the almighty dollar.
>>> Finally, you can't make the company have a cab there "within ten
>>> minutes" same as you can't "make your husband get home on time"
>>> "make your kid stop crying" "make your boyfriend like your sister"
>>> you get
>> the
>>> idea.
>>> What you are agreeing to is that people break the law. Why is that
>> okay
>>> with you?
>>> Finally, people call cabs to serve urgent needs. Ten minutes may
>> indeed
>>> make a world of difference.
>>> Once a cab has left, you're screwed The driver or dispatch can say
>>> anything they want.
>>> Finally how does religion play into this? If I want or need to do
>>> something religious, I do it on my own time.
>>> Finally, I have no earthly idea how plumbers and engineers came into
>>> this discussion. Would you hire a plumber who said "I didn't see
>>> that leak, I'm blind" Their job is to find and resolve leaks,
>>> blindness wouldn't be an excuse for *not* doing this.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jewel S.
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 6:37 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] Cab drivers in DC pass blind people
>>> with guide dogs
>>>
>>> I have to politely disagree. A person with a severe allergy to dogs
>>> has a smuch right to be a taxi driver as a blind person has the
>>> right to be an engineer or plumber.
>>>
>>> And if the allergy is a disability, then it is not a possibility of
>>> not having a job based on that allergy. That would be discrimination
>>> under the ADA and a possible lawsuit.
>>>
>>> See, what I think I see is that people want their accommodations
>>> met, and don't give a rat's butt if it interferes with the needs of
>>> someone else. If a person can handle a dog nearby for a few moments,
>>> but can't handle the dander on the cab's upholstery for the hours
>>> that it will remain after, why shouldn't they be allowed to refuse
>>> based on special accommodation and provide alternative transportation.
>>>
>>> personally, my feeling is that if it is such a major concern, call
>>> the company beforehand and request a driver that isn't allergic. Why
>>> hail a cab off the streets in this day of cell phones? Just call the
>>> company and ask for a cab, and it'll be there in 5 minutes.
>>>
>>> If the problem is with a particular company, then don't call that
>>> company, and tell eveyrone you know about the problem you had with
>>> them. The fewer clients, the less likely that company will be around.
>>>
>>> Me, if I were told I couldn't ride because of a severe allergy, I'd
>>> say "That's fine, as long as yuo have a second taxi here within 10
>>> minutes. 10 minutes will not make a difference. If it is going to
>>> make a difference between getting on time to an interview or work
>>> and being late, you need to give yourself more time! Ten minutes is
>>> not enough leave-way.
>>>
>>> I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I am
>>> willing to "bend over backward" as you call it. I am willing to
>>> accommodate other people's special needs in return for them
accommodating mine.
>>> How can we say we want our accommdations met, but not meet the
>>> accommodations of others? Isn't that rather hypocritical?
>>>
>>> On 9/9/10, Dan Weiner <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net> wrote:
>>>> Well, my friend:
>>>> I am going to sound combative, but I am expressing an honestly held
>>> opinion,
>>>> an opinion which is not meant in any way to belittle you as I'm
>>>> sure
>>> you're
>>>> a nice person and so on.
>>>> Give me a break, is my opinion.
>>>> I think that a lot of us are really too much in to bending over
>>> backwards to
>>>> accommodate, in quotes.
>>>> Malarkey.
>>>> It is necessary for companies, entities to accommodate the presence
>> of
>>> a
>>>> service animal because of the special status service dogs, etc.
>>>> have
>>> been
>>>> given in society. This is the result of long struggle and advocacy.
>>>> We are not the ones to do the accommodating, jeeze.
>>>>
>>>> I will quote both my sister, who has bad dog and cat allergies, and
>>>> a
>>> doctor
>>>> I spoke to.
>>>> The instance of dog allergies is quite a bit less than sever cat
>>> allergies.
>>>> The instances of severe medical consequences from dog dander is
>>> actually
>>>> rare.
>>>> Discomfort someone might have is, and frankly should be, none of my
>>> concern.
>>>> And now the doctor: he told me that if a dog dander allergy were
>>> severe,
>>>> then the person would react to even dander brought in on someone's
>>> cloths,
>>>> packages, shoes, etc. So, where do we draw the line.
>>>>
>>>> I base a lot of my opinions on the experience with my sister, c,
>>>> who
>>> can't
>>>> have dogs and cats in her house and so on.. She has been a royal
>>>> burr
>>> in my
>>>> rear since I got a dog, but we've had discussions and she's in
>>>> total agreement about the guide dog access issue.
>>>>
>>>> What is this, because I have a guide dog I have to spend my whole
>> life
>>>> bending over backwards to be considerate.
>>>> I don't think so. Now, you are saying, don't you want to be
>>> considerate?
>>>> Yes, but only in the same way I'm considerate to everyone
>>>> everywhere
>> I
>>> go,
>>>> not a special consideration for dumb ass cab drivers who have a
>>>> thing
>>> or an
>>>> imagined thing about dogs. Boy, that felt good, let it all out
>>> Dan--lol.
>>>>
>>>> My consideration is shown in my brushing my dog, in my keeping him
>>>> well-behaved, etc.
>>>>
>>>> If these guys would just suck it up and do their job then life
>>>> would
>>> be much
>>>> simpler.
>>>>
>>>> A severe allergy, as I think I stated so wordily in another
>>>> message--smile--if it is a disability would require a record of
>>>> such
>>> and
>>>> drivers I've talked to don't want that because then it could be a
>>> reason for
>>>> them not to have the job in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure either, Jewel, that that's such an original
>>> accommodation, in
>>>> quotes.
>>>> Plenty of drivers in Maryland told me I'd have to have another cab
>>>> or
>>> they
>>>> called dispatch. The point is it doesn't wash.
>>>> As long as a significant amount of the guide dog using population
>>> feels that
>>>> we're walking on eggs and the mere fact of being allowed treatment
>>> with
>>>> dignity is such a hardship for the public, the longer this will go
>> on.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I need my coffee.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, the only thing I know about you or anyone else here is
>>>> what
>>> you
>>>> say on the list, so please don't take it personally.
>>>>
>>>> Cordially,
>>>>
>>>> Dan W. and the big black bear, I mean dog, Carter
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ~Jewel
>>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> ~Jewel
>> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
>> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>>
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>
>
> --
> ~Jewel
> Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
> Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com
>
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