[nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?

Thu Apr 7 07:09:31 UTC 2011

My analogy will be a far stretch of the imagination, but hear me out, 
please.

We have child labor laws for a reason. We also have retirement guidelines 
for a reason. There are reasons why dog guide schools advise retirement of 
guide dogs at what ever age your school advises. My intended point is this. 
we need to protect the health and psychological well being of our dogs; yes, 
our dogs. Our guides are dogs first. Most of us know that the life of a 
guide dog is tension filled and stressful too. To me, it's more humane to 
let these guys be puppies first. The thought of a dog guide working, and 
that is what is, at a very young age troubles me the more I contemplate this 
topic.

Lisa and Bernie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J" <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 11:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?

>I can vouch for at least my Boxer mix taking a while to mature.
>
> Things I noticed before I considered him mature were: difficulty in 
> remaining focused on a task, interest in all sorts of things to the point 
> of distraction, inability to process multiple streams of information at 
> once, inability to make complex decisions and difficulty with staying in 
> one place for long stretches.
>
> When I first got him he was around 8-9 months old.  He peed on the floor, 
> stole food off the counter, dug holes in the yard, jumped up on people and 
> chewed up pillows among other things.  These behaviors are all pretty 
> typical of puppies, but I wouldn't necessarily call them a lack of 
> maturity. You could have a mature dog that did all of these things due to 
> poor training, health problems or other reasons.
>
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>
>
>> Yes.  Besides Poodles, I think German shepherds, Boxers, Curly Coated 
>> Retrievers all need more time to mature.  It also varies from dog to dog.
>>
>> Now to all you who responded with how young your dog or someone else's 
>> dog was, what kinds of behaviors did you see in these dogs.
>>
>> Personally, I've see less puppy behavior and chewing in dogs that are 22 
>> months or more when they were issued.  I've noticed this in class and in 
>> my own dogs in general.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Sarah Clark" <goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 8:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>
>>
>>>I was told by someone at one of the schools that poodles tend to mature 
>>>more slowly than the labs, so they tend to stay in their puppy homes 
>>>longer and they take longer to go through training.  Has anyone else 
>>>heard this?
>>>
>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 6:07 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Rox,
>>>>
>>>> Way to go Laveau!
>>>>
>>>> So Mitzi poodle was trained in terms of having the skills down by 18
>>>> monmths, but I chose to let her go to 24 months before I considered her
>>>> graduated.  She did do some full working trips and handled it very 
>>>> well, but
>>>> I didn't want to put a full-time guide dog burden on her because I was
>>>> concerned about her maturity and how much it might strees her and how 
>>>> that
>>>> might affect her future work...
>>>>
>>>> Then again, I was 8very* aware that my poodle pup was burdened with a 
>>>> total
>>>> newbie self-taught -- and still working on it -- handler, so asking her 
>>>> to
>>>> take full respsonsibility under those conditions seemed a bit much!
>>>>
>>>> Reviewing that period of our lives together now, I'm thinking that I 
>>>> could
>>>> have let her work progress with her knowledge much more rapidly, 
>>>> assuming I
>>>> knew what I know now.  And what I hope to know by the time I do it all 
>>>> over
>>>> again in a few years.  /smile/
>>>>
>>>> She was still really, really puppy at 18 months, though, and it was 
>>>> tough
>>>> for her to work for long periods without showing signs of having had 
>>>> too
>>>> much...  One reason I keep thinking dobie is that they do seem to "grow 
>>>> up"
>>>> more quickly than poodles, while having some of those same character 
>>>> traits
>>>> I really adore in Mitzi.  Even mellow poodles like Mitzi are wound 
>>>> pretty
>>>> tight, much like their curls.  /lol/
>>>>
>>>> Of course, Mitzi has DD hooked on poodles, so I may find myself doing 
>>>> the
>>>> whole poodle thing all over again, just 10 years older.  I'd better 
>>>> start
>>>> catching up on my rest!  /grin/
>>>>
>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:43 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>
>>>> Steve,
>>>>
>>>> I totally agree with you here.  Bristol was a program trained dog
>>>> issued at 18 months.  She was very matured and retired due to medical
>>>> reasons.  The dog I had gotten before that was issued at 24 months and
>>>> was very immature.
>>>>
>>>> I start formal harness training around 12-14 months and usually my
>>>> dogs are finished between 18-20 months.  My border collie, Gracy
>>>> didn't really grow up until she was 4, and she retired when she was
>>>> 7.  Laveau was born mature, I think and she guided me around Boston
>>>> (which was a totally new city for her) when she was 15 months old and
>>>> her work was flawless.
>>>> It really just depends on the dog, I think.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rox and the Botanical Barkers:
>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>> "The only problem with troubleshooting is, sometimes, trouble shoots
>>>> back."
>>>> http://www.pawpowercreations.com
>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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