[nagdu] Retirement Age

Margo and Arrow margo.downey at verizon.net
Thu Apr 7 13:57:00 UTC 2011 

I've known dogs to have to retire at the age of 2 or 4, so, I don't know how 
one can tell at what age a dog should retire.  I think you could talk 
averages but even those have room for discussion.

Margo and Arrow
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 8:14 AM
Subject: [nagdu] Retirement Age


> Lisa,
>    I am of the opinion that we, as handlers, are the best to determine the 
> retirement of our dog, not some arbitrary measure of age nor the opinion 
> of someone who has no intimate knowledge of the dog's ability or 
> temperament. Some programs require retirement at 10 years old. My Collie 
> worked until she was 12 and my Labrador worked until he was nearly 15. 
> They told me when they were ready to retire. the program from which I 
> received my dogs honored and respected my judgment. Mike Sergeant called 
> my Lab "Super Dog" because of his longevity and energetic work. When my 
> Collie didn't come when I called her with the harness in hand, I knew she 
> was ready to retire.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 3:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>
>
>> My analogy will be a far stretch of the imagination, but hear me out, 
>> please.
>>
>> We have child labor laws for a reason. We also have retirement guidelines 
>> for a reason. There are reasons why dog guide schools advise retirement 
>> of guide dogs at what ever age your school advises. My intended point is 
>> this. we need to protect the health and psychological well being of our 
>> dogs; yes, our dogs. Our guides are dogs first. Most of us know that the 
>> life of a guide dog is tension filled and stressful too. To me, it's more 
>> humane to let these guys be puppies first. The thought of a dog guide 
>> working, and that is what is, at a very young age troubles me the more I 
>> contemplate this topic.
>>
>> Lisa and Bernie
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 11:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>
>>
>>>I can vouch for at least my Boxer mix taking a while to mature.
>>>
>>> Things I noticed before I considered him mature were: difficulty in 
>>> remaining focused on a task, interest in all sorts of things to the 
>>> point of distraction, inability to process multiple streams of 
>>> information at once, inability to make complex decisions and difficulty 
>>> with staying in one place for long stretches.
>>>
>>> When I first got him he was around 8-9 months old.  He peed on the 
>>> floor, stole food off the counter, dug holes in the yard, jumped up on 
>>> people and chewed up pillows among other things.  These behaviors are 
>>> all pretty typical of puppies, but I wouldn't necessarily call them a 
>>> lack of maturity. You could have a mature dog that did all of these 
>>> things due to poor training, health problems or other reasons.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:51 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes.  Besides Poodles, I think German shepherds, Boxers, Curly Coated 
>>>> Retrievers all need more time to mature.  It also varies from dog to 
>>>> dog.
>>>>
>>>> Now to all you who responded with how young your dog or someone else's 
>>>> dog was, what kinds of behaviors did you see in these dogs.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I've see less puppy behavior and chewing in dogs that are 
>>>> 22 months or more when they were issued.  I've noticed this in class 
>>>> and in my own dogs in general.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Sarah Clark" <goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 8:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I was told by someone at one of the schools that poodles tend to mature 
>>>>>more slowly than the labs, so they tend to stay in their puppy homes 
>>>>>longer and they take longer to go through training.  Has anyone else 
>>>>>heard this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 6:07 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rox,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Way to go Laveau!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So Mitzi poodle was trained in terms of having the skills down by 18
>>>>>> monmths, but I chose to let her go to 24 months before I considered 
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> graduated.  She did do some full working trips and handled it very 
>>>>>> well, but
>>>>>> I didn't want to put a full-time guide dog burden on her because I 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> concerned about her maturity and how much it might strees her and how 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> might affect her future work...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then again, I was 8very* aware that my poodle pup was burdened with a 
>>>>>> total
>>>>>> newbie self-taught -- and still working on it -- handler, so asking 
>>>>>> her to
>>>>>> take full respsonsibility under those conditions seemed a bit much!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reviewing that period of our lives together now, I'm thinking that I 
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> have let her work progress with her knowledge much more rapidly, 
>>>>>> assuming I
>>>>>> knew what I know now.  And what I hope to know by the time I do it 
>>>>>> all over
>>>>>> again in a few years.  /smile/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She was still really, really puppy at 18 months, though, and it was 
>>>>>> tough
>>>>>> for her to work for long periods without showing signs of having had 
>>>>>> too
>>>>>> much...  One reason I keep thinking dobie is that they do seem to 
>>>>>> "grow up"
>>>>>> more quickly than poodles, while having some of those same character 
>>>>>> traits
>>>>>> I really adore in Mitzi.  Even mellow poodles like Mitzi are wound 
>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>> tight, much like their curls.  /lol/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, Mitzi has DD hooked on poodles, so I may find myself doing 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> whole poodle thing all over again, just 10 years older.  I'd better 
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> catching up on my rest!  /grin/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:43 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I totally agree with you here.  Bristol was a program trained dog
>>>>>> issued at 18 months.  She was very matured and retired due to medical
>>>>>> reasons.  The dog I had gotten before that was issued at 24 months 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> was very immature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I start formal harness training around 12-14 months and usually my
>>>>>> dogs are finished between 18-20 months.  My border collie, Gracy
>>>>>> didn't really grow up until she was 4, and she retired when she was
>>>>>> 7.  Laveau was born mature, I think and she guided me around Boston
>>>>>> (which was a totally new city for her) when she was 15 months old and
>>>>>> her work was flawless.
>>>>>> It really just depends on the dog, I think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rox and the Botanical Barkers:
>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>>> "The only problem with troubleshooting is, sometimes, trouble shoots
>>>>>> back."
>>>>>> http://www.pawpowercreations.com
>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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