[nagdu] intelligent disobedience

Fri Apr 8 05:26:27 UTC 2011

Hi Everyone,

Yesterday my guide dog did something I don't recall my other guide dogs 
doing. That is, my current guide dog cut in front of me and then to make his 
point, he laid down on the ground.

I was with a group of friends. we were boarding a deep sea fishing boat. 
After traveling up a ramp I was told to turn left and step over the 
knee-knocker (very high divider. Bernie saw life at his level. He didn't see 
over the knee knocker. In front of us was a fence. Beyond the fence was the 
ocean. Friend who is a "high partial" filled in the confusing blanks for me. 
I couldn't decipher why Bernie wouldn't move. I'm still pretty embarrassed. 
After she explained what he was doing and how to help Bernie, I loved all 
over him. Wow! Now I know he is smarter than me!

Lisa and Bernie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Puppy raising Question

> Yikes!  I let that one get out before I thought my way through it, didn't 
> I?
> /grin/
>
> Well, I was thinking aloud to myself about what the employer's reasoning
> might be in this specific case without evaluating whether it was valid or
> not.
>
> Now that you mention it, though, since he could not prevent a blind guide
> dog user or other disabled service dog user because dander might get into
> the air system, it's not as cut and dried as it might seem.
>
> Hmm...  So I'm back to wondering about that one again.  Ah, wel, something
> to do since there's nothing on TV right now.  /grin/
>
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of d m gina
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 2:55 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Puppy raising Question
>
> Hmmmmmmm
> Tammy this would mean then no blind person would ever be hired from
> this company with what your thoughts are on the matter?
> hmmmmmmm
>
> Original message:
>> Diana and Sarah,
>
>> That is my understanding of the matter from a legal perspective, too.
>
>> What I have heard is that many guide dog programs do a lot of outreach 
>> and
>> make arrangements with businesses and agencies and transit companies and,
>> well, just about everybody they can, to gain permission for their puppy
>> raisers and trainers to bring the program's pups with them for the sake 
>> of
>> socialization and exposure to the many environments in which the 
>> youngster
>> will be doing their work in later life.  I know GDB has done a pretty 
>> good
>> job of that around the Portland Metro area because of the Boring campus
>> nearby.  Which is why I so often have to explain about why my dog isn't
>> wearing a green vest when we go places we haven't been before.  /smile/
> The
>> GDB pups and GDITs wear green vests with the school name and logo so that
>> they are easily identifiable.  I guess some clerks and business owners 
>> who
>> don't see guide dogs all that often assume that it is the vest that makes
>> the dog a guide and that there is some legal requirement for all guide
> dogs
>> to wear them.  I tried the short explanation at first -- that's for Guide
>> Dogs with a Capital G and Capital D -- but this did not appear to be
>> effective at all, since the person didn't grasp the distinction.  Oh,
> well.
>> So I had to come up with a more extended spiel and practice it for next
> time
>> it came up.  /lol/
>
>> So, Diana, I would interested to know -- if your friend is okay with your
>> sharing that information -- how the program she is raising the puppy for
>> deals with the matter.  Do they get involved in something like this so
> that
>> she can continue to give her pups more exposure to the workplace
>> environment?  Or is it up to her to handle those arrangements directly
> with
>> her employer.
>
>> I can't think of many good reason why the employer in this case would
> change
>> things because of a new building, but I suspect it may have something to
> do
>> with the air ducts and environmental systems in the new building.  They
>> might have some concern about dander and loose dog hair floating through
> the
>> air ducts into other parts of the building where there might be a problem
>> for people with allergies, especially if the building is shared with 
>> other
>> companies.
>
>> Just a guess.  This is an interesting topic, though.
>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Sarah Clark
>> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 1:42 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Puppy raising Question
>
>> Hi Diana,
>> Unfortunately your puppy raiser friend does not have any rights when it
>> comes to bringing her puppy to work.  The right of access goes with the
>> handler, not the dog, and it is the blind handler who has the rights, and
>> only when the dog has actually completed training as a guide.
>> Many puppy raisers are able to bring their puppies in training to stores,
>> work, etc, but that is only because the establishment has chosen to allow
>> it.  If they don't grant access, the raiser has no legal standing, and
>> should probably not push the issue.
>
>> Sarah & Miguel
>
>
>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Diana Dawne" <drdawne at samobile.net>
>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:44 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Puppy raising Question
>
>
>>> Hi all.  I have a friend who has encountered a problem She currently is
>>> raising for one of the large schools on the east coast.  She has done
> this
>
>>> for many years and always takes her dogs to work with her which I think
> is
>
>>> what puppy raisers are supposed to do. Her dogs are always the model of
>>> correct deportment so there has never ever been an issue over their
>>> behavior.  However today her boss called her into his office to explain
>>> they were changing offices and he would no longer allow her to bring the
>>> dog to work with her.
>
>>> It seems odd to me that if she has done this for many years and there
> have
>
>>> never been complaints this attitude is strange to say the least.  Does
> she
>
>>> have any legal rights whatever?
>
>>> Bright Blessings,
>
>>> Diana & that Very Magical and Enchanting Guide Dog Fuller Brush
>>> email: drdawne at samobile.net
>>> phone toll-free 8775232688
>
>>> --
>>> Diana Dawne PHD
>>> phone and fax: good for  The United States and Canada 18775232688
>>> email: drdawne at samobile.net
>
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>
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> -- 
> --Dar
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> every saint has a past
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