[nagdu] Retirement Age

Marion Gwizdala blind411 at verizon.net
Fri Apr 8 18:00:07 UTC 2011


Lisa,
    You certainly have the right to disagree; I am curious, though, what in 
my message is disagreeable to you?

Fraternally yours,
Marion




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Retirement Age


> Point taken.I respectfully disagree.
>
> Lisa and Bernie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 5:14 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] Retirement Age
>
>
>> Lisa,
>>    I am of the opinion that we, as handlers, are the best to determine 
>> the retirement of our dog, not some arbitrary measure of age nor the 
>> opinion of someone who has no intimate knowledge of the dog's ability or 
>> temperament. Some programs require retirement at 10 years old. My Collie 
>> worked until she was 12 and my Labrador worked until he was nearly 15. 
>> They told me when they were ready to retire. the program from which I 
>> received my dogs honored and respected my judgment. Mike Sergeant called 
>> my Lab "Super Dog" because of his longevity and energetic work. When my 
>> Collie didn't come when I called her with the harness in hand, I knew she 
>> was ready to retire.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 3:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>
>>
>>> My analogy will be a far stretch of the imagination, but hear me out, 
>>> please.
>>>
>>> We have child labor laws for a reason. We also have retirement 
>>> guidelines for a reason. There are reasons why dog guide schools advise 
>>> retirement of guide dogs at what ever age your school advises. My 
>>> intended point is this. we need to protect the health and psychological 
>>> well being of our dogs; yes, our dogs. Our guides are dogs first. Most 
>>> of us know that the life of a guide dog is tension filled and stressful 
>>> too. To me, it's more humane to let these guys be puppies first. The 
>>> thought of a dog guide working, and that is what is, at a very young age 
>>> troubles me the more I contemplate this topic.
>>>
>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 11:34 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>
>>>
>>>>I can vouch for at least my Boxer mix taking a while to mature.
>>>>
>>>> Things I noticed before I considered him mature were: difficulty in 
>>>> remaining focused on a task, interest in all sorts of things to the 
>>>> point of distraction, inability to process multiple streams of 
>>>> information at once, inability to make complex decisions and difficulty 
>>>> with staying in one place for long stretches.
>>>>
>>>> When I first got him he was around 8-9 months old.  He peed on the 
>>>> floor, stole food off the counter, dug holes in the yard, jumped up on 
>>>> people and chewed up pillows among other things.  These behaviors are 
>>>> all pretty typical of puppies, but I wouldn't necessarily call them a 
>>>> lack of maturity. You could have a mature dog that did all of these 
>>>> things due to poor training, health problems or other reasons.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:51 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes.  Besides Poodles, I think German shepherds, Boxers, Curly Coated 
>>>>> Retrievers all need more time to mature.  It also varies from dog to 
>>>>> dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now to all you who responded with how young your dog or someone else's 
>>>>> dog was, what kinds of behaviors did you see in these dogs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Personally, I've see less puppy behavior and chewing in dogs that are 
>>>>> 22 months or more when they were issued.  I've noticed this in class 
>>>>> and in my own dogs in general.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Sarah Clark" <goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 8:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was told by someone at one of the schools that poodles tend to 
>>>>>>mature more slowly than the labs, so they tend to stay in their puppy 
>>>>>>homes longer and they take longer to go through training.  Has anyone 
>>>>>>else heard this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 6:07 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rox,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Way to go Laveau!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So Mitzi poodle was trained in terms of having the skills down by 18
>>>>>>> monmths, but I chose to let her go to 24 months before I considered 
>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>> graduated.  She did do some full working trips and handled it very 
>>>>>>> well, but
>>>>>>> I didn't want to put a full-time guide dog burden on her because I 
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> concerned about her maturity and how much it might strees her and 
>>>>>>> how that
>>>>>>> might affect her future work...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then again, I was 8very* aware that my poodle pup was burdened with 
>>>>>>> a total
>>>>>>> newbie self-taught -- and still working on it -- handler, so asking 
>>>>>>> her to
>>>>>>> take full respsonsibility under those conditions seemed a bit much!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reviewing that period of our lives together now, I'm thinking that I 
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> have let her work progress with her knowledge much more rapidly, 
>>>>>>> assuming I
>>>>>>> knew what I know now.  And what I hope to know by the time I do it 
>>>>>>> all over
>>>>>>> again in a few years.  /smile/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> She was still really, really puppy at 18 months, though, and it was 
>>>>>>> tough
>>>>>>> for her to work for long periods without showing signs of having had 
>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>> much...  One reason I keep thinking dobie is that they do seem to 
>>>>>>> "grow up"
>>>>>>> more quickly than poodles, while having some of those same character 
>>>>>>> traits
>>>>>>> I really adore in Mitzi.  Even mellow poodles like Mitzi are wound 
>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>> tight, much like their curls.  /lol/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, Mitzi has DD hooked on poodles, so I may find myself 
>>>>>>> doing the
>>>>>>> whole poodle thing all over again, just 10 years older.  I'd better 
>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>> catching up on my rest!  /grin/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:43 PM
>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I totally agree with you here.  Bristol was a program trained dog
>>>>>>> issued at 18 months.  She was very matured and retired due to 
>>>>>>> medical
>>>>>>> reasons.  The dog I had gotten before that was issued at 24 months 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> was very immature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I start formal harness training around 12-14 months and usually my
>>>>>>> dogs are finished between 18-20 months.  My border collie, Gracy
>>>>>>> didn't really grow up until she was 4, and she retired when she was
>>>>>>> 7.  Laveau was born mature, I think and she guided me around Boston
>>>>>>> (which was a totally new city for her) when she was 15 months old 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> her work was flawless.
>>>>>>> It really just depends on the dog, I think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rox and the Botanical Barkers:
>>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>>>> "The only problem with troubleshooting is, sometimes, trouble shoots
>>>>>>> back."
>>>>>>> http://www.pawpowercreations.com
>>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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