[nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program

Tue Apr 19 03:13:40 UTC 2011

I agree and that's why I chose to teach my first dog to follow on command and with a very limitted number of people and only in certain situations. I also taught him another command when I wanted him to stand and I didn't want to stand myself. I taught him butt up lol.

-----Original Message-----
From: Julie J <julielj at neb.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:41 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,	the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program

I don't understand why there would be confusion with follow if it's properly 
taught.  Our dogs learn lots of commands that are situational and require 
thought and discretion.  If forward is properly taught, the dog won't 
randomly go forward when it feels like it, or move forward to the exclusion 
of other considerations like stairs, cars etc.

I can understand how follow might be easier than actual guiding for some 
dogs and I can understand how a handler could overuse follow.  But it's 
really no different than habitually telling your dog forward into oncoming 
traffic, after a while you are going to have problems.  I see follow like 
that, if properly taught and used, it shouldn't confuse the dog or be a 
problem.

JMHO
Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven Johnson" <blinddog3 at charter.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program

> Leader does the same, and no confusion.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 4:22 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>
> To avoid confusion, the dog needs to learn that when you tell it to follow
> someone, you want him to follow that person.  He should learn that he 
> isn't
> to randomly follow people if there is no command from you.
>
> Seeing Eye still teaches "Follow" and the dogs have no confusion.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>
>
>> The follow command sounds beneficial. Guiding Eyes discourages the dogs
>> from following some one in a store.If I've got it right, the person
>> guiding us through the restaurant or store is supposed to walk be hind us
>> and tell us which way to go. Personally, I find this confusing and
>> frustrating.
>>
>> Bernie and  I went to the very crowded and noisy winter pops. I tried the
>> walk behind me and let me know which way we're going. Bernie was ready to
>> blow through the masses. I opted instead to heal Bernie. Even in the
>> grocery store, it's almost easier to heal my dog and place my hand on the
>> shopping cart instead of trying to do it the other way.  The school's
>> rational makes sense to me. They contend telling your dog to follow and
>> then reprimanding him for following another person at another time is
>> confusing to the dog. What do you guys think?
>>
>> Lisa and Bernie
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 2:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>>
>>
>>> Carin,
>>> I've known several people who got dogs at Pilot.  They went during the
>>> 80s and 90s and they had traffic training and their dogs worked fine as
>>> far as I could see.  What I did hear is that they don't teach the
>>> "Follow" command. I have since heard that other schools aren't teaching
>>> the "Follow" command either.
>>>
>>> To me, the "Follow" command is a very good one that I use all the time
>>> when I'm in a store or just out and about with other guide dog users and
>>> I don't know the route - usually inside a mall or store.  Out on the
>>> street, I use the regular guide commands.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Karen Alexander" <kalex710 at gmail.com>
>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:42 PM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>>>
>>>
>>>>I spoke with Alec a member of Nagdu and a guide dog handler. I found out
>>>> that Pilot Dogs train their dogs for only three months. It seems that
>>>> they
>>>> are not thoroughly trained with traffic, etc. I am just in the 
>>>> beginning
>>>> state of choosing an organization.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I could used input from anyone on this list regarding Pilot Dogs both
>>>> positive and negative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is a grave concern to me to be given a dog who could put both of us
>>>> in
>>>> harms way. How can a service dog organization not be called out for
>>>> unsafe
>>>> dogs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The newbie,
>>>>
>>>> Carin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Karen Alexander
>>>>
>>>> home:    330 864 8351
>>>>
>>>> mobile:  330 715 4690
>>>>
>>>> 710 White Pond Dr #705
>>>>
>>>> Akron, Ohio 44320
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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> et
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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