[nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
Lyn Gwizdak
linda.gwizdak at cox.net
Wed Apr 20 16:44:28 UTC 2011
Hahahaha! Yeah, wondered if you caught that female spelling, Marion! No
offense to you, Brittney, I just had to crack up over it.
While we're on the name thing, I'm Lyn with one n and my name is either male
or female.
Cheers,
Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
> hi Marion ,
> I am so sorry. Next time I will be sure and check spelling
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:23 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Brittney,
> I appreciate your support. I would also appreciate it if you would
> please take note of the spelling of the names of those to whom you write,
> as
> I believe doing so shows respect for the individual. I realize that screen
> reading software may pronounce Mariane and Marion very similarly; however,
> Mariane is always a female name, whereas Marion can be either. In my case,
> it is a male name. FYI, the generally accepted female form of my name is
> Marian, although some females have the same spelling as mine, e.g., Marion
> Ross, who played Mrs. Cunningham on Happy Days.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
>
>> Well Written! Mariane
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 3:57 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>> Brittney,
>> For much too long, society has seen the blind as wards unable to
>> direct
>> their own lives - children who need the protection of others. All too
>> often,
>> many of the programs - including the guide dog training programs - feel
>> we
>> need them to survive! The truth is that they need us! If it were not for
>> our
>> blindness, those who train guide dogs would not have a job! If it were
>> not
>> for us, the training programs would not be able to raise the funds needed
>> to
>> operate the programs that provide this product for us. Frankly, if it
>> were
>> not for us, the Executive Directors of these programs would not be able
>> to
>> raise the money to pay themselves their 6-figure incomes! This puts us in
>> a
>> powerful position. with power, comes responsibility. It is our
>> responsibility to shape the programs into what we want them to be for us
>> by
>> making consumer choices.
>> It is ludicrous to receive a guide dog with all of the strings
>> attached
>> that some have. Most programs have the mistaken notion that blind people
>> are
>> more likely to abuse or neglect their dogs, so they impose waiting
>> periods
>> before we can own the dogs. In addition, they require their consumers to
>> report in with them on a regular basis to make sure the blind are doing
>> what
>> the paternalistic programs think we should. Some even impose themselves
>> upon
>> the blind by mandating follow-up visits. Some even do this unannounced!
>> How
>> rude and disrespectful! Then there is Fidelco, which believes only they
>> know
>> what is good for the blind and exercise their sole and absolute
>> discretion
>> over our lives and property.
>> Now is the time for us to stand up and demand to be treated with the
>> dignity and respect we deserve! our Guide Dog Consumers' Bill of Rights
>> will
>> be a statement of our expectations from the programs. Some will agree to
>> it
>> and some will not. Nonetheless, it will spark some conversations that
>> need
>> to take place and cause one or two of the paternalistic programs to take
>> a
>> closer look at their policies and practices.
>> We will recognize those that agree to our values and urge those that
>> do
>> not to join us. In any case, we are in the midst of some exciting change
>> in
>> the guide dog movement!
>>
>> fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>>
>>> hi Mariane and every body else,
>>> Its all so complicated. As a consumer you want the best dog
>>> possible.and yes I think we should get the best dog possible.
>>> but where do we draw the line between consumer who is asking to much and
>>> we are the consumer we have a right to know. There so many things I
>>> would have loved to know about my guide dog that I had to find out about
>>> later. I am starting to think that I am expecting to much from my
>>> school. But at the same time I want to give them the benefit of the
>>> dout, sometimes they miss things, things do happen, dogs get sick etc.
>>> Sometimes I think I am complaining and other times I think "hay this is
>>> what you signed up for deal with it."
>>> Take care!
>>> .
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----
>>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:32 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> Brittney,
>>> I object to the characteristic of the guide dog consumer as a
>>> "beggar".
>>> Guide dog training programs raise millions of dollars each year with the
>>> assertion that they are doing something beneficial and enhancing for the
>>> blind. Donors - many of whom are their own consumers - donate these
>>> millions
>>> with the same intent. If it were not for us, those employed by the
>>> training
>>> programs would not be earning their livings.
>>> The idea that we have no say and must settle for whatever we receive
>>> with no rights to address abuse or maltreatment is archaic. Most
>>> training
>>> programs obviously view their blind consumers as nothing more than wards
>>> who
>>> are unable to govern their own lives, let alone take care of a dog. What
>>> other reason would they have for not transferring ownership upon
>>> completion
>>> of the program? I have heard many justifications and rationalizations
>>> for
>>> this paternalistic practice but none of them are convincing. It is time
>>> for
>>> us to discard the notion that we are beholden to the training programs
>>> and
>>> demand to be treated equitably and with the dignity many of these
>>> programs
>>> mistakenly assert they provide.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Do we have rights as guide dog users? Most schools give us our dogs
>>>> for free or they charge a small fee that I think is extremely cheap.
>>>> Beggers can't be choosers I guess. I think we should be informed of
>>>> any alergy or behavior problem but sometimes we aren't. I think the
>>>> schools try there best we can't blame them for things that they may
>>>> have missed. My guide has alergies, I found this after I brought her
>>>> home. I contacted the school I got her from, and they helped me find a
>>>> food that didn't cause her problems. A lot of people I know there
>>>> guide dogs have alergies, I don't know why, I guess things just happen.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:43 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys,
>>>> As a side discussion to this, it seems to me that many more dogs are
>>>> cropping up with one kind or another allergy these days. When I lived
>>>> back
>>>> east I never really encountered this problem until I moved to
>>>> California.
>>>> Now I hear that the dogs in the east coast have this problem as well -
>>>> actually dogs all over the US. Is this my imagination or are the dogs
>>>> coming out of the schools now actually having more allergies? Input
>>>> anyone?
>>>>
>>>> The Bill of Rights thing sounds good to me. I think the schools do
>>>> what
>>>> they can to try to make sure that the dogs we get are in good health.
>>>> But
>>>> these same dogs go through the hands of puppy raisers who either want
>>>> their
>>>> dog to suceed as a guide for a blind person or they want it to fail so
>>>> they
>>>> can keep it as a pet (I actually encountered a puppy raiser like this -
>>>> they
>>>> got found out and dropped from the program.). I wonder if the only
>>>> info on
>>>> a given dog is only that provided by the puppy raiser in their reports
>>>> to
>>>> the school. then there are the problems that nobody forsees like
>>>> regional
>>>> allergies or other problems that come up after the dog is exposed to
>>>> something as a ongoing thing after it goes out with a graduate.
>>>>
>>>> JUst wondering about these things. And then a dog is a living being and
>>>> there's no guarentees.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:43 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Marion, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consumers shall receive verbal and written notification by the school
>>>>> when a food allergy has been identified by the puppy raiser and or the
>>>>> assigned veterinarian. With holding such vital information could have
>>>>> devastating results for the guide dog team.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa,
>>>>>> Let me ask you to complete this statement as it pertains to the
>>>>>> issues you raise. Please keep the statement succinct, about one or
>>>>>> two sentences. Anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is welcome
>>>>>> to do so. As a guideline, here is the statement that would precede
>>>>>> this one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a. Consumers shall expect that every effort shall be made to
>>>>>> provide dogs in excellent health and appropriate temperament
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, complete this statement to provide that the program discloses
>>>>>> this information:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The guide dog training program shall disclose ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I look forward to your input on our Bill of Rights!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:16 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] when should schools give information about dog
>>>>>> guides and re issued guides
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the school has an obligation to be up front with the
>>>>>>> student. I respect that the school doesn't want to set the student
>>>>>>> or the dog up for frustration and failure. This is what I base my
>>>>>>> belief on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My first guide dog was a sweet and stubborn Goldie. She was a
>>>>>>> finicky eater too. The school said nothing about her propensity to
>>>>>>> not eat. However, the puppy raiser did tell me on the sly. I was
>>>>>>> told that from the "get-go" my Goldie was a fussy eater. The
>>>>>>> puppyraisers used unconventional ways to get her to eat. They
>>>>>>> sprinkled Parmashon cheese on her food. That's all right by me. They
>>>>>>> also 'fessed up to slipping her people food. I'm glad they told me.
>>>>>>> It helped me be on the alert.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My second dog, Louie, was a ever hungry Labrador. The puppyraisers
>>>>>>> said something about all of his allergies and how he needed special
>>>>>>> food. I disregarded what they said because I figured if my dog had
>>>>>>> various food allergies the school would know and they would tell me.
>>>>>>> Louie is the dog I returned because I thought he had behavioral
>>>>>>> issues. No, he had very severe food allergies which explained why he
>>>>>>> learned to get the bungy cords off the trash cans and feast. He also
>>>>>>> feasted on animal feces too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bernie, my third guide dog, probably has some food allergies. Not
>>>>>>> wanting a sad repeat of the previous food related experiences with
>>>>>>> Louie, I nipped the problem in the bud. That is, Bernie ate two
>>>>>>> different dog foods that left him with gooey poo. Bernie eats a
>>>>>>> fresh and whole food quality dog food. The joke is, I can eat the
>>>>>>> dog's food if I really want a truly healthy and balanced diet.{In
>>>>>>> Bernie's food is: salmon, barley, beets, carrots and ginger and
>>>>>>> other items{.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie , ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:05 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>> Quite true. Though I'd be happy if the puppy raiser would let me
>>>>>>>> know if,
>>>>>>>> say, the dog was a habitual counter surfer. Though they probably
>>>>>>>> wouldn't, for fear of getting their puppy dropped from training.
>>>>>>>> I figure knowledge is power, and I'm a big girl who won't go nuts
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> little problems. But you're probably right that no one is going to
>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>> me all I'd like to know.
>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>>> I was just comparing it to what we know about the guides we
>>>>>>>>> receive who
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> not reissues. They normally don't tell us about those things when
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect them to for a
>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> because it was a reissue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I buy your argument. There could be plenty of
>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>> behaviors I might never think to mention. For example, Ben
>>>>>>>>>> empties on
>>>>>>>>>> route. The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over
>>>>>>>>>> first. To
>>>>>>>>>> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur to
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>> the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to
>>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied
>>>>>>>>>> every 5
>>>>>>>>>> minutes.
>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any undesirable
>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>> the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps to
>>>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>>>> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all. You can bet,
>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties on
>>>>>>>>>> route.
>>>>>>>>>> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead.
>>>>>>>>>> <grimace.>
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peggy,
>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know
>>>>>>>>>>> why the
>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.
>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if
>>>>>>>>>>> the dog
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need
>>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is
>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual. But then
>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if its
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>>>>>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any problems.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the
>>>>>>>>>>> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that
>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>> too much either because if the new handler specifically doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>>>>>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a
>>>>>>>>>>> dog that
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food
>>>>>>>>>>> distraction
>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> curious
>>>>>>>>>>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that information.
>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever had. As I said I'll always wonder why her previous
>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> school,
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do. She lived in
>>>>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while. It was
>>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>>>>>>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>>>>>> out wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sarah Clark
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify them
>>>>>>>>>>>> all in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same category. True that an occasional dog that is a reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>> may have
>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to handle
>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog from
>>>>>>>>>>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all. Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> the dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and realized
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>> many years ago). Maybe it just wasn't a good match. Or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> extreme
>>>>>>>>>>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for. Its also true
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> have the experience under their belt so are often more seasoned
>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> younger dogs. Though it is clear that some applicants don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> want them
>>>>>>>>>>>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the
>>>>>>>>>>>> interview
>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> be open to having one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued. This dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>was with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>him and my friend got this same dog. Boy, what stories this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>dog could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>have told if he could talk! It was a very nice dog and she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance. Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or re
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question. That's one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-issued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people... /smile/ Still, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the most part. There will certainly be times when it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting... As a still pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner-trainer then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closely as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of the long-timers. I can watch my peers in that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team building phase: We over-react. To everything. /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, the mundane... It is all new and exciting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frightening and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief. We popped out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dinner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table... Outwardly, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay. Inwardly, what did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG! How can this be? What can it mean? Oh, no, this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuss and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got over it. /smile/ More and more, it's all old hat, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog... I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience dhandler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habit for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs. So you really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counteract and... Well, on and on. It just takes awhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become havit and natural. I've only been there for a short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me. I don't think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are really hard to get rid of. I love my dog very muchand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we still have some work to do. What do you guys think? am I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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