[nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
Lisa Irving
lirving1234 at cox.net
Thu Apr 21 04:35:20 UTC 2011
Hi Traci and Rebecca,
This is the "Yin and the Yang" for my darling, Bernie. I love that he is
overall pretty laid back. The other side; not the reverse side, is that
Bernie is stubborn. If I were to go back into Mommy mode, I'd be asking
myself, how can I make this stubborn streak; strong willed, a plus for both
of us? That's how I, if you will, parent Bernie. I want him to be strong
willed when we're walking. I trust him; most of the time. In the morning,
Bernie generally wants to get up when he feels like getting up. I know this
and I accept it. I make this work by talking to him, scratching him all over
and gently tugging on a paw. No problem, he get's up. We go through a
similar dance in the evening when I take him out for his last "park time".
Lisa and Bernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
> Hi Rebecca.
> Very well put.
> I'm doing just that with Ben. I have a whole list of things I like, and
> things that could be better. Trouble is, some of the dislikes are the
> flip side of what I like. For example, I wish he'd take my corrections
> more seriously, but I love that he will stand up to me when I'm wrong.
> Yin and yang. The yin/yang symbol has a light and a dark side, but each
> side has a bit of the other in it. So it is.
> Tracy
>
>> Britney,
>> I'd suggest you treat this as a lessons learned event.
>> Write down what you like about your dog and what you don't like. Then
>> hang
>> onto it and think about it a bit later.
>> Your experiences and impressions are valid and you should not discount
>> them. You got a dog to do a job for you. The school needs to know what
>> worked and what didn't. Every business does.
>> If we were talking about a heating system and yours worked 75 percent of
>> the time and the other 25 percent it heated your house way too hot, you'd
>> let somebody know. You may choose to live with it because hey, it saves
>> you a lot of money, and you aren't home when it heats too hot, but you'd
>> certainly say "Whenyou install another system, let's fix this problem".
>> Look at your dog and your school in the same way.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:44 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>> hi Mariane and every body else,
>> Its all so complicated. As a consumer you want the best dog possible.and
>> yes I think we should get the best dog possible.
>> but where do we draw the line between consumer who is asking to much and
>> we
>> are the consumer we have a right to know. There so many things I would
>> have
>> loved to know about my guide dog that I had to find out about later. I am
>> starting to think that I am expecting to much from my school. But at the
>> same time I want to give them the benefit of the dout, sometimes they
>> miss
>> things, things do happen, dogs get sick etc. Sometimes I think I am
>> complaining and other times I think "hay this is what you signed up for
>> deal
>> with it."
>> Take care!
>> .
>>
>> -----Original Message----
>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:32 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>> Brittney,
>> I object to the characteristic of the guide dog consumer as a
>> "beggar".
>> Guide dog training programs raise millions of dollars each year with the
>> assertion that they are doing something beneficial and enhancing for the
>> blind. Donors - many of whom are their own consumers - donate these
>> millions
>> with the same intent. If it were not for us, those employed by the
>> training
>> programs would not be earning their livings.
>> The idea that we have no say and must settle for whatever we receive
>> with no rights to address abuse or maltreatment is archaic. Most training
>> programs obviously view their blind consumers as nothing more than wards
>> who
>> are unable to govern their own lives, let alone take care of a dog. What
>> other reason would they have for not transferring ownership upon
>> completion
>> of the program? I have heard many justifications and rationalizations for
>> this paternalistic practice but none of them are convincing. It is time
>> for
>> us to discard the notion that we are beholden to the training programs
>> and
>> demand to be treated equitably and with the dignity many of these
>> programs
>> mistakenly assert they provide.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:08 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Do we have rights as guide dog users? Most schools give us our dogs for
>>> free or they charge a small fee that I think is extremely cheap.
>>> Beggers
>>> can't be choosers I guess. I think we should be informed of any alergy
>>> or behavior problem but sometimes we aren't. I think the schools try
>>> there best we can't blame them for things that they may have missed. My
>>> guide has alergies, I found this after I brought her home. I contacted
>>> the
>>> school I got her from, and they helped me find a food that didn't cause
>>> her problems. A lot of people I know there guide dogs have alergies, I
>>> don't know why, I guess things just happen.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:43 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> Hi guys,
>>> As a side discussion to this, it seems to me that many more dogs are
>>> cropping up with one kind or another allergy these days. When I lived
>>> back
>>> east I never really encountered this problem until I moved to
>>> California.
>>> Now I hear that the dogs in the east coast have this problem as well -
>>> actually dogs all over the US. Is this my imagination or are the dogs
>>> coming out of the schools now actually having more allergies? Input
>>> anyone?
>>>
>>> The Bill of Rights thing sounds good to me. I think the schools do what
>>> they can to try to make sure that the dogs we get are in good health.
>>> But
>>> these same dogs go through the hands of puppy raisers who either want
>>> their
>>> dog to suceed as a guide for a blind person or they want it to fail so
>>> they
>>> can keep it as a pet (I actually encountered a puppy raiser like this -
>>> they
>>> got found out and dropped from the program.). I wonder if the only info
>>> on
>>> a given dog is only that provided by the puppy raiser in their reports
>>> to
>>> the school. then there are the problems that nobody forsees like
>>> regional
>>> allergies or other problems that come up after the dog is exposed to
>>> something as a ongoing thing after it goes out with a graduate.
>>>
>>> JUst wondering about these things. And then a dog is a living being and
>>> there's no guarentees.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>>> Marion, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here.
>>>>
>>>> Consumers shall receive verbal and written notification by the school
>>>> when a food allergy has been identified by the puppy raiser and or the
>>>> assigned veterinarian. With holding such vital information could have
>>>> devastating results for the guide dog team.
>>>>
>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 AM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa,
>>>>> Let me ask you to complete this statement as it pertains to the
>>>>> issues you raise. Please keep the statement succinct, about one or two
>>>>> sentences. Anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is welcome to do
>>>>> so. As a guideline, here is the statement that would precede this one.
>>>>>
>>>>> a. Consumers shall expect that every effort shall be made to
>>>>> provide dogs in excellent health and appropriate temperament
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, complete this statement to provide that the program discloses
>>>>> this
>>>>> information:
>>>>>
>>>>> The guide dog training program shall disclose ....
>>>>>
>>>>> I look forward to your input on our Bill of Rights!
>>>>>
>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:16 AM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] when should schools give information about dog guides
>>>>> and re issued guides
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe the school has an obligation to be up front with the
>>>>>> student. I respect that the school doesn't want to set the student
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> the dog up for frustration and failure. This is what I base my belief
>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My first guide dog was a sweet and stubborn Goldie. She was a finicky
>>>>>> eater too. The school said nothing about her propensity to not eat.
>>>>>> However, the puppy raiser did tell me on the sly. I was told that
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the "get-go" my Goldie was a fussy eater. The puppyraisers used
>>>>>> unconventional ways to get her to eat. They sprinkled Parmashon
>>>>>> cheese
>>>>>> on her food. That's all right by me. They also 'fessed up to slipping
>>>>>> her people food. I'm glad they told me. It helped me be on the alert.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My second dog, Louie, was a ever hungry Labrador. The puppyraisers
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> something about all of his allergies and how he needed special food.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> disregarded what they said because I figured if my dog had various
>>>>>> food
>>>>>> allergies the school would know and they would tell me. Louie is the
>>>>>> dog I returned because I thought he had behavioral issues. No, he had
>>>>>> very severe food allergies which explained why he learned to get the
>>>>>> bungy cords off the trash cans and feast. He also feasted on animal
>>>>>> feces too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bernie, my third guide dog, probably has some food allergies. Not
>>>>>> wanting a sad repeat of the previous food related experiences with
>>>>>> Louie, I nipped the problem in the bud. That is, Bernie ate two
>>>>>> different dog foods that left him with gooey poo. Bernie eats a
>>>>>> fresh and whole food quality dog food. The joke is, I can eat the
>>>>>> dog's
>>>>>> food if I really want a truly healthy and balanced diet.{In Bernie's
>>>>>> food is: salmon, barley, beets, carrots and ginger and other items{.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie , ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:05 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>> Quite true. Though I'd be happy if the puppy raiser would let me
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> if,
>>>>>>> say, the dog was a habitual counter surfer. Though they probably
>>>>>>> wouldn't, for fear of getting their puppy dropped from training.
>>>>>>> I figure knowledge is power, and I'm a big girl who won't go nuts
>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>> little problems. But you're probably right that no one is going to
>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>> me all I'd like to know.
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>> I was just comparing it to what we know about the guides we receive
>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> not reissues. They normally don't tell us about those things when
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect them to for a
>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> because it was a reissue.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>> I don't think I buy your argument. There could be plenty of
>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>> behaviors I might never think to mention. For example, Ben
>>>>>>>>> empties
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> route. The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over
>>>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur to
>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>> the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to
>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied
>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>> 5
>>>>>>>>> minutes.
>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any undesirable
>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>> the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps to
>>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>>> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all. You can bet,
>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties on
>>>>>>>>> route.
>>>>>>>>> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead. <grimace.>
>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peggy,
>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know
>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if the
>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need
>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is
>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual. But then
>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if its
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>>>>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any problems.
>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like
>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that
>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>> too much either because if the new handler specifically doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>>>>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a dog
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food
>>>>>>>>>> distraction
>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> curious
>>>>>>>>>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that information.
>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of the
>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> have ever had. As I said I'll always wonder why her previous
>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the
>>>>>>>>>>> school,
>>>>>>>>>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do. She lived in
>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while. It was
>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>>>>>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and
>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>>>>> out wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sarah Clark
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify them
>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> same category. True that an occasional dog that is a reissue
>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to handle
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the dog
>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc, but
>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all. Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and realized
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>> many years ago). Maybe it just wasn't a good match. Or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle the
>>>>>>>>>>> extreme
>>>>>>>>>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school
>>>>>>>>>>> thinks
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for. Its also true
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> have the experience under their belt so are often more seasoned
>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> younger dogs. Though it is clear that some applicants don't
>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the
>>>>>>>>>>> interview
>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> be open to having one.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued. This dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was
>>>>>>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>him and my friend got this same dog. Boy, what stories this dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>could
>>>>>>>>>>>>have told if he could talk! It was a very nice dog and she
>>>>>>>>>>>> worked
>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second chance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> re
>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question. That's one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-issued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people... /smile/ Still, I get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the most part. There will certainly be times when it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting... As a still pretty new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an owner-trainer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of the long-timers. I can watch my peers in that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team building phase: We over-react. To everything. /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, the mundane... It is all new and exciting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frightening
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief. We popped out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dinner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table... Outwardly, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay. Inwardly, what did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG! How can this be? What can it mean? Oh, no, this is so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuss and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got over it. /smile/ More and more, it's all old hat, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog... I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience dhandler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habit for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs. So you really have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counteract and... Well, on and on. It just takes awhile for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become havit and natural. I've only been there for a short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me. I don't think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are really hard to get rid of. I love my dog very muchand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we still have some work to do. What do you guys think? am I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lirving1234%40cox.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> for
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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