[nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights

Lisa Irving lirving1234 at cox.net
Sun Apr 24 08:55:05 UTC 2011


Tami,

So, does your dog from CRAP do the driving?

Lisa and Bernie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights


> Give me about 5 minutes.  I'm on my way!  Oh, never mind.  Teleporter 
> broke.
> I hate when that happens.  Still, we are getting closer to real travel
> time...  If we can pull of taking the trip we really want to, with as 
> comfy
> a budget as we would like, won't be no problem to swing by San Diego and
> tear up the town on our way from Palm Springs to Florida...  His family 
> give
> us those two waypoints, which is good of them, since we can plan a route
> that includes my family and friends and quite a bit of other cool stuff on
> the southern route there, the trip up the coast, and the northern route
> back.  Few more logistics for us to conquer, but...  We are so ready for 
> the
> carefree life of the open road!  /grin/
>
> Also, we've taken a couple of short jaunts -- and have just found out his
> work schedule may conflict with our planned May trip (grr! Aargh!), but I
> can already tell that Mitzi is going to love traveling the RV way just 
> fine,
> and that I am going love traveling with her!  Oh, and that guy who does 
> all
> the driving and his dog, too, of course.  /lol/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 2:51 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Hey Tami, you'll have to visit us in San Diego so Mitzi can meet Landon 
> and
> Bernie!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 3:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
>
>> Tami,
>>
>> Bernie is part lab and Goldie.  He may be stubborn, but I'm the "parent".
>>
>> Lisa and Bernie
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>>
>>> Lisa,
>>>
>>> Who are you and how did you manage to get a black poodle down to San
>>> Diego
>>> disguised as a golden retriever named Bernie?  /lol/  Same deal with 
>>> her.
>>> Love the strong-willed stubborness when she's guiding me.  Have learned
>>> to
>>> accept the accommodations I end up making with her to get around it
>>> everywhere else.  Who's the boss around here?  Mitzi's the boss!  Who
>>> else
>>> do you think it would be?  Teehee.
>>>
>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Lisa Irving
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:35 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> Hi Traci and Rebecca,
>>>
>>> This is the "Yin and the Yang" for my darling, Bernie. I love that he is
>>> overall  pretty laid back. The other side; not the reverse side, is that
>>> Bernie is stubborn. If I were to go back into Mommy mode, I'd be asking
>>> myself, how can I make this stubborn streak; strong willed, a plus for
>>> both
>>> of us? That's how I, if you will, parent Bernie. I want him to be strong
>>> willed when we're walking. I trust him; most of the time. In the 
>>> morning,
>>> Bernie generally wants to get up when he feels like getting up. I know
>>> this
>>> and I accept it. I make this work by talking to him, scratching him all
>>> over
>>>
>>> and gently tugging on a paw. No problem, he get's up. We go through a
>>> similar dance in the evening when I take him out for his last "park
>>> time".
>>>
>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:21 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Rebecca.
>>>> Very well put.
>>>> I'm doing just that with Ben.  I have a whole list of things I like, 
>>>> and
>>>> things that could be better.  Trouble is, some of the dislikes are the
>>>> flip side of what I like.  For example, I wish he'd take my corrections
>>>> more seriously, but I love that he will stand up to me when I'm wrong.
>>>> Yin and yang.  The yin/yang symbol has a light and a dark side, but 
>>>> each
>>>> side has a bit of the other in it.  So it is.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>> Britney,
>>>>> I'd suggest you treat this as a lessons learned event.
>>>>> Write down what you like about your dog and what you don't like. Then
>>>>> hang
>>>>> onto it and think about it a bit later.
>>>>> Your experiences and impressions are valid and you should not discount
>>>>> them. You got a dog to do a job for you. The school needs to know what
>>>>> worked and what didn't. Every business does.
>>>>> If we were talking about a heating system and yours worked 75 percent
>>>>> of
>>>>> the time and the other 25 percent it heated your house way too hot,
>>>>> you'd
>>>>> let somebody know. You may choose to live with it because hey, it 
>>>>> saves
>>>>> you a lot of money, and you aren't home when it heats too hot, but
>>>>> you'd
>>>>> certainly say "Whenyou install another system, let's fix this 
>>>>> problem".
>>>>> Look at your dog and your school in the same way.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:44 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>> hi Mariane and every body else,
>>>>> Its all so complicated.  As a consumer you want the best dog
>>>>> possible.and
>>>>> yes I think we should get the best dog possible.
>>>>> but where do we draw the line between consumer who is asking to much
>>>>> and
>>>>> we
>>>>> are the consumer we have a right to know. There so many things I would
>>>>> have
>>>>> loved to know about my guide dog that I had to find out about later. I
>>>>> am
>>>>> starting to think that I am expecting to much from my school.  But at
>>>>> the
>>>>> same time I want to give them the benefit of the dout, sometimes they
>>>>> miss
>>>>> things, things do happen, dogs get sick etc.  Sometimes I think I am
>>>>> complaining and other times I think "hay this is what you signed up 
>>>>> for
>>>>> deal
>>>>> with it."
>>>>> Take care!
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----
>>>>> From: Marion Gwizdala
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:32 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>     I object to the characteristic of the guide dog consumer as a
>>>>> "beggar".
>>>>> Guide dog training programs raise millions of dollars each year with
>>>>> the
>>>>> assertion that they are doing something beneficial and enhancing for
>>>>> the
>>>>> blind. Donors - many of whom are their own consumers - donate these
>>>>> millions
>>>>> with the same intent. If it were not for us, those employed by the
>>>>> training
>>>>> programs would not be earning their livings.
>>>>>     The idea that we have no say and must settle for whatever we
>>>>> receive
>>>>> with no rights to address abuse or maltreatment is archaic. Most
>>>>> training
>>>>> programs obviously view their blind consumers as nothing more than
>>>>> wards
>>>>> who
>>>>> are unable to govern their own lives, let alone take care of a dog.
>>>>> What
>>>>> other reason would they have for not transferring ownership upon
>>>>> completion
>>>>> of the program? I have heard many justifications and rationalizations
>>>>> for
>>>>> this paternalistic practice but none of them are convincing. It is 
>>>>> time
>>>>> for
>>>>> us to discard the notion that we are beholden to the training programs
>>>>> and
>>>>> demand to be treated equitably and with the dignity many of these
>>>>> programs
>>>>> mistakenly assert they provide.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:08 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> Do we have rights as guide dog users?  Most schools give us our dogs
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> free or they charge a small fee that I think is extremely cheap.
>>>>>> Beggers
>>>>>> can't be choosers  I guess.  I think we should be informed of any
>>>>>> alergy
>>>>>> or behavior problem but sometimes we aren't.  I think the schools try
>>>>>> there best we can't blame them for things that they may have missed.
>>>>>> My
>>>>>> guide has alergies, I found this after I brought her home. I 
>>>>>> contacted
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> school I got her from,  and they helped me find a food that didn't
>>>>>> cause
>>>>>> her problems.  A lot of people I know there guide dogs have alergies,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> don't know why, I guess things just happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:43 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>> As a side discussion to this, it seems to me that many more dogs are
>>>>>> cropping up with one kind or another allergy these days.  When I 
>>>>>> lived
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> east I never really encountered this problem until I moved to
>>>>>> California.
>>>>>> Now I hear that the dogs in the east coast have this problem as 
>>>>>> well -
>>>>>> actually dogs all over the US.  Is this my imagination or are the 
>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>> coming out of the schools now actually having more allergies?  Input
>>>>>> anyone?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Bill of Rights thing sounds good to me.  I think the schools do
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> they can to try to make sure that the dogs we get are in good health.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> these same dogs go through the hands of puppy raisers who either want
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> dog to suceed as a guide for a blind person or they want it to fail 
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> can keep it as a pet (I actually encountered a puppy raiser like
>>>>>> this -
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> got found out and dropped from the program.).  I wonder if the only
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> a given dog is only that provided by the puppy raiser in their 
>>>>>> reports
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the school.  then there are the problems that nobody forsees like
>>>>>> regional
>>>>>> allergies or other problems that come up after the dog is exposed to
>>>>>> something as a ongoing thing after it goes out with a graduate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JUst wondering about these things. And then a dog is a living being
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> there's no guarentees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:43 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marion, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Consumers shall receive verbal and written notification by the 
>>>>>>> school
>>>>>>> when a food allergy has been identified by the puppy raiser and or
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> assigned veterinarian.  With holding such vital information could
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> devastating results for the guide dog team.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lisa,
>>>>>>>>    Let me ask you to complete this statement as it pertains to the
>>>>>>>> issues you raise. Please keep the statement succinct, about one or
>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>>> sentences. Anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is welcome to
>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> so. As a guideline, here is the statement that would precede this
>>>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a.       Consumers shall expect that every effort shall be made to
>>>>>>>> provide dogs in excellent health and appropriate temperament
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now, complete this statement to provide that the program discloses
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> information:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The guide dog training program shall disclose ....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I look forward to your input on our Bill of Rights!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:16 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] when should schools give information about dog
>>>>>>>> guides
>>>>>>>> and re issued guides
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe  the school has an obligation to be up front with the
>>>>>>>>> student. I respect  that the school doesn't want to set the 
>>>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> the dog up for frustration and failure. This is what I base my
>>>>>>>>> belief
>>>>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My first guide dog was a sweet and stubborn Goldie. She was a
>>>>>>>>> finicky
>>>>>>>>> eater too. The school said nothing about her propensity to not 
>>>>>>>>> eat.
>>>>>>>>> However, the puppy raiser did tell me on the sly.  I was told that
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> the "get-go" my Goldie was a fussy eater. The puppyraisers used
>>>>>>>>> unconventional ways to get her to eat. They sprinkled Parmashon
>>>>>>>>> cheese
>>>>>>>>> on her food. That's all right by me. They also 'fessed up to
>>>>>>>>> slipping
>>>>>>>>> her people food. I'm glad they told me. It helped me be on the
>>>>>>>>> alert.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My second dog, Louie, was a ever hungry Labrador. The puppyraisers
>>>>>>>>> said
>>>>>>>>> something about all of his allergies and how he needed special
>>>>>>>>> food.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> disregarded what they said because I figured if my dog had various
>>>>>>>>> food
>>>>>>>>> allergies the school would know and they would tell me.  Louie is
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> dog I returned because I thought he had behavioral issues. No, he
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> very severe food allergies which explained why he learned to get
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> bungy cords off the trash cans and feast. He also feasted on 
>>>>>>>>> animal
>>>>>>>>> feces too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bernie, my third guide dog, probably has some food allergies. Not
>>>>>>>>> wanting a sad repeat of the previous food related experiences with
>>>>>>>>> Louie, I nipped the problem in the bud. That is, Bernie ate two
>>>>>>>>> different dog foods  that left him with gooey poo.  Bernie eats  a
>>>>>>>>> fresh and whole food quality dog food. The joke is, I can eat the
>>>>>>>>> dog's
>>>>>>>>> food if I really want a truly healthy and balanced diet.{In
>>>>>>>>> Bernie's
>>>>>>>>> food is: salmon, barley, beets, carrots and ginger and other
>>>>>>>>> items{.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie ,  ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:05 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>>> Quite true.  Though I'd be happy if the puppy raiser would let me
>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>> if,
>>>>>>>>>> say, the dog was a habitual counter surfer.  Though they probably
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't, for fear of getting their puppy dropped from training.
>>>>>>>>>> I figure knowledge is power, and I'm a big girl who won't go nuts
>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>> little problems.  But you're probably right that no one is going
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>>>> me all I'd like to know.
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>>>>> I was just comparing it to what we know about the guides we
>>>>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> not reissues.  They normally don't tell us about those things
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect them to for a
>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>> because it was a reissue.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I buy your argument.  There could be plenty of
>>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>>> behaviors I might never think to mention.  For example, Ben
>>>>>>>>>>>> empties
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> route.  The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over
>>>>>>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>>>>>>> To
>>>>>>>>>>>> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>>>> the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to
>>>>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied
>>>>>>>>>>>> every
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5
>>>>>>>>>>>> minutes.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any
>>>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>>>> the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>>>>>> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all.  You can 
>>>>>>>>>>>> bet,
>>>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>>>> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> route.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead.
>>>>>>>>>>>> <grimace.>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peggy,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know
>>>>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual.  But then
>>>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too much either because if the new handler specifically 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food
>>>>>>>>>>>>> distraction
>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> curious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever had.  As I said I'll always wonder why her previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do.  She lived in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while.  It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sarah Clark
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same category.  True that an occasional dog that is a reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many years ago).  Maybe it just wasn't a good match.  Or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extreme
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for.  Its also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the experience under their belt so are often more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seasoned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> younger dogs.  Though it is clear that some applicants don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be open to having one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued.  This dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>him and my friend got this same dog.  Boy, what stories this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>have told if he could talk!  It was a very nice dog and she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question.  That's one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-issued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people...  /smile/  Still, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the most part.  There will certainly be times when it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting...  As a still pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner-trainer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of the long-timers.  I can watch my peers in that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team building phase:  We over-react.  To everything. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, the mundane...  It is all new and exciting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frightening
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief.  We popped out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dinner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table...  Outwardly, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay.  Inwardly, what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG!  How can this be?  What can it mean?  Oh, no, this is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuss and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got over it.  /smile/  More and more, it's all old hat, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhandler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habit for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs.  So you really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counteract and...  Well, on and on.  It just takes awhile
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become havit and natural.  I've only been there for a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me.  I don't think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are  really hard to get rid of.  I love my  dog very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muchand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we still have some work to do.  What do you guys think? am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lirving1234%40cox.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n
>>> et
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcgloba
>>> l.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pshald%40neb.rr.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcgloba
>>> l.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcgloba
>>> l.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lirving1234%40cox.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.ne
>>> t
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/brittneymejico%40veri
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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