[nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Sun Apr 24 21:47:37 UTC 2011


Sarah,

Teehee.  Silly boy.  Mitzi thinks it's amusing to hide socks and shoes from
me when I'm in a hurry to get dressed to go somewhere.  Well, she did until
she figured out that meant she couldn't go out as soon.  So then she learned
the command, "Find the other sock!"  Or shoe.  Or glove.  I really didn't
need help losing them sometimes.

Silly poodle!  Now I have an open-faced storage kinda thingy where I keep my
sheets and towels and stuff like that.  You would not believe how long it
took me to figure out why every time I went to grab a neatly folded set of
towels or sheets, it would suddenly appear that I had just wadded them up
and tossed them back into that corner without getting around to folding them
and putting them away.  While I would try to sort things out, the dogs would
watch me with great interest, radiating purity and innocence the entire
time.  /lol/  I would throw things up on my bed to fold (even though I was
sure I had done that recently), and Daisy would lie on them on the bed and
look at me with innocence and love shining through her large golden
coonhound eyes...  Did I figure it out from *that*?  No, of course not!
/lol/

Ah, well.  Foling all the stuff on the floor in the back corner of my room
and putting it neatly in the shelves gives me something to do when I just
need something simple to keep me busy while I think about something else.  I
have simply decided never to investigate the question of what it's doing
there when I folded it and put it away already in the first place.

Monster dogs!  Then again, the only reason I have any gloves or wolly hats
left to my name is because Mitzi stops and shows them to me when I drop them
out of my pockets as we walk.  Funny girl won't pick them up for me, but she
will stop and turn around and show me where the glove or hat is so I can
bend over and pick it up out of the mud.  /smile/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sarah Clark
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:34 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights

Its weird, Miguel has always had a strange fetish for socks. If there's a 
pile of things, he'll leave everything else alone, but for some reason goes 
for the socks.  I learned early on to not lay them around anywhere within 
his reach. He doesn't eat things, but if they're left in his reach, he'll 
grab it and carry it around. I've discovered this when I've found a damp 
sock laying around sometimes with little teeth marks or holes in it.  I 
don't know why he likes them so much specifically, but I've often wondered 
if his puppy raiser let him play tug with them or something.

Sarah & Miguel




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights


> Brittney,
>
> /lol/  That's a good one!
>
> My experience given my special talent for dropping socks, among other
> things, without noticing whether I'm blind or not, and leaving them on the
> floor until I notice they're there and pick them up, the way you know the
> dog has been eating or socks or anything else is when you find the holes 
> and
> teeth impressions.  These are easily detectable to the blind person as 
> they
> are to the sighted person.  The only danger posed to the life of the dog, 
> as
> near as I can tell, is my brief longing to do it in for chewing holes in 
> my
> favorite pair of socks or mangling my favorite barette or...  Dropping the
> item on the floor is not necessary to the dog, btw.  Putting it safely out
> of reach where the dog can't possible get to it is no guarantee that the 
> dog
> won't chew whatever it is.  /grin/
>
> On the other hand, dropped socks left on the floor unnoticed by a blind
> person are very very bad for the health of vacuum cleaners!  Having numb
> hands along with blindness so that you can't even feel the socks on the
> floor when you're picking up before you vacuum gives on plenty of
> opportunity to observe the causal connection between dropped socks and
> broken vacuum cleaners.  Teehee.
>
> I keep pointing out to DD that I really am healthy enough now (have been 
> for
> quite a long time even) to vacuum the floor so he doesn't have to.  For 
> some
> reason, he is vigorously opposed to the very idea, seeming to believe I am
> somehow a threat to his vacuum cleaner and a few other things that might 
> be
> on the floor like, you know, the furniture.  /lol/  That's okay, though,
> because while I like living in a clean and orderly house, I really don't
> like doing housework.
>
> Mitzi likes supervising the housework, so she gets plenty of entertainment
> just following him around while I get to do other things than housework 
> and
> entertaining the poodle.  /lol/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Brittney N. Mejico
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 11:31 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Hay I forgot to askhas anyone ever seen a dog eat a sock?  If they were
> eating one wouldn't the blind person know? or do they eat them hole?  if
> anyone's guide dog eats a sock whole can you videotape it.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Brittney N. Mejico
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 11:14 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Tami
> I totally agree with you.
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 11:31 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Brittney,
> I
> I am glad you found it helpful!  Although the reasons you needed to know
> you're not alone really suck, and I'm not as thrilled to have a story to
> share about that kind of stuff myself.  /smile/  If we're going to go
> through life learning things about the culture we live in, we might as 
> well
> use our experiences to pass them onto others.  Or so I tell myself, even
> though I don't believe it, really.  /smile/
>
> Also, I learned very early in life that speakin gup about something bad
> someone is doing to you in front of others is the most effective way to 
> get
> it to stop.  Also to learn the important lesson is that some things are 
> not
> okay and that adults lie through their teeth so you'd best pay attention 
> and
> not let those people define your reality for you when it's different from
> the reality the rest of the world is actually living in.  That reality has
> its problems, too, but I much prefer it to the invented one my family had
> made up for themselves.  This is why I came out of that family sane 
> despite
> some pretty dismal statistical odds.  Once you accept the invented reality
> that is in direct contrast to observable reality, you're pretty well 
> doomed.
> So, bad experience, a bit of random chance in which I popped up and
> corrected the lie in front of a nurse, whose shocked look told me 
> everything
> I knew before I fell back into my half-faint again, and that nurse 
> probably
> saved my entire future for me right there.  Odd how things happen.  But I
> talked about that too, and later of round of similar, and I took what I 
> got
> in return because if you remove the secrecy you remove its power.  Also,
> others will then tell you about their own bummers and go on to find 
> strength
> and healing now that they have broken the power of the secret.  Knowledge
> is, truly, power.
>
> So with abuses in the resource system for PWDs (persons with 
> disabilities).
> As blind consumers we're treated to our own special flavor of it, but at 
> the
> core it's not so much a sighted vs. blind issue is as it is a matter of 
> who
> has power over whom.  And how they use it.  If you have something I need
> that I can't get anywhere else for whatever reason, you have power over 
> me.
> It is entirely up to you  how you choose to use that power.  I am at your
> mercy, one way or another.  If you choose to use that power to make my 
> life
> miserable or even to beat up on me while withholding what it is I need 
> from
> you, that leaves me with exactly two options:  Put up with the abuse in 
> the
> hopes I might actually get what I need, or do without it.  Either way, in
> thiose circumstances, it sucks to be me.  /grin/
>
> When it comes to resources for us PWDs, we have protections from those who
> will abuse that inherent power in the form of laws and rules and contracts
> and accepted social norms in the larger society within which these abuses
> are taking place.  If life and human nature were straightforward and 
> simple,
> that would give us all the power, as well as the resources.  However... 
> So
> long as the laws are not enforced and the larger society grants the power 
> to
> abuse us to those who are breaking all those laws and rules and social
> norms, then we who encounter the abuse have a whole different set of
> options:
>
> 1.  Put up and shut up and hope we get some scraps
> 2.  Speak up and put up and hope someone else gets the meal that's been 
> set
> out for them
>
> Too often, exercising option 2 means you're not going to get even the 
> scraps
> you need for the fight and that you're going to get the most scrapes from
> the very people you're trying to feed your own meal to.
>
> Thus, the vast majority of the starving ragged metaphorical masses choose
> option 1 on the basis that is ultimately a whole lot easier than the
> alternative and they are just too hungry and exhausted to even think of 
> how
> to start.  Sad, but true.  Thus, oppressors continue their oppression with
> the full and sometimes willing cooperation of the oppressed.
>
> Who won't even speak up about their problems because they don't want to
> upset the people who are stealing food off their table.  Sigh.
>
>
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Brittney N. Mejico
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:24 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Hi Tami  and Lyn,
> I would like to thank both of you for sharing your experiences.Both of you
> guys stories have helped me out.  I can't put it into words how much. I 
> got
> my dog from GDA and nothing against anyone who goes there but man they 
> LOVE
> LOVE good stories.  I found this out about six months ago. My grandmother
> told them that my X boy friend hits and kicks my guide dog and they 
> believed
>
> her.  They took my dog and then gave her back after they couldn't find any
> proof that she had been abused.  It was a totally uncool experience. 
> Yes
> the fabracated stories have to stop. I thought that I was the only one who
> has had some person make up a story about them and have the school take
> someone elses side but yours.I am just thankful I got my dog back.  I am
> glad that I now know  know that the schools talk to each other.I hope this
> issue does not effect me if I ever apply for another guide.
>
> Thanks a bunch
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:34 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Lyn,
>
> Had that experience with my application to GDB, through the Boring campus,
> which I attempted to finish up after the big disaster at Oregon Commission
> for the Blind.  Oh, they definitely talk to each other, too!  And the GDB
> interviewer and, apparently, the selection committee, clearly believed 
> them
> hook line and sinker!
>
> So the one reason given that was GDB's own is that I had set a load of
> laundry by the kitchen door to the basement because the washers were full.
> It was still there when she arrived for the home interview, so when I 
> showed
> her around, I explained that I'd set it there for later instead of 
> carrying
> it up another flight of stairs in my house and having to carry it down 
> that
> same extra flight later on when it was my turn for the laundry room.
> Apparently, if I will do such a carefless, negligent, dangerous thing when
> there is no dog in the house, I will almost certainly kill any guide dog 
> of
> theirs because it will eat a sock and die.  Turns out, that did apparently
> happen to one of their dogs way back in the mists of history.  So I've 
> heard
> others scratching their heads about the dire danger of socks and how come
> they have to keep hearing about how their going to kill their dogs if they
> drop a sock on the floor.  Very odd.  I'm not knocking the program or 
> their
> dogs, since we all know they turn out good dogs and happy grads who 
> somehow
> manage to avoid the dangers of lurking killer socks.
>
> The other two points in the letter were straight from Oregon Commission 
> for
> the Blind, almost verbatim.  The mobility instructor -- who also did some
> in-home living skills instructing -- reported that my ability to navigate
> and orient, along with my ability to accomplish household tasks without
> assistance from her, allowing her to play spider solitaire on my computer,
> indicated that I was using my really great vision to do these things.  She
> did not -- or the letter from GDB did not mention this detail -- that I 
> was
> performing those tasks under sleep shade.  Anyway, since I had really 
> great
> vision and didn't need a guide dog and would most certainly screw it up if
> it lived long enough what with the socks and all, they preferred to save
> their dogs for blind people who needed them.  Sigh.
>
> Also, because of what had happened when I came across the state to the
> Living Skills Center and nearly ended up dead, it appeared I had some
> serious mental health issues and would, you know, do bad things to the 
> dog.
> Um...  I had a real problem with that one, since I was getting through the
> PTSD from all that, and had been declared in the aftermath by not one but
> three licensed and qualified professionals using metric tools and 
> everything
> to be quite sane otherwise and to be handling the PTSD in a surprisingly
> mentally healthy way even before I got into counseling for it.  Also, it
> seemed to me that it might be helpful for me to know if the OCB had 
> crossed
> the line somewhere in what they communicated to the guide dog program when
> they submitted the O&M assessment the program required.  I had been quite
> open with the interviewer from GDB, and I did give them a release of
> information from the counselor I was still seeing for the PTSD, then 
> chatted
> about it in session while going through the status check part of the
> conversation.  The counselor's input matched with my general perception of
> my own reality -- still got a ways to go, but doing well, can expect a 
> good
> outcome, have coping skills to use in moving along, etc., etc.  She didn't
> tell me what she planned to report to GDB, or what she did report, which
> seemed pretty professional of her, so I didn't really worry about it.  She
> struck me as the type to do her job as she should, which was to give an
> accurate report on my mental health status...
>
> I did want to discuss the issue with the interviewer from GDB, though, to
> find out what was going on there, how to correctly translate their 
> statement
> from the letter, and to find out what I needed to do to resolve the issue 
> in
> the event I decided to reapply at the appropriate time...  No return
> communication.  Tried the boss...  Nope!  At that point, I noticed that I
> seem to have ordered a poodle to be delivered to my home and had better
> things to do than worry about what a bunch of strangers thought of how
> dangerous crazy I must be.  Doesn't matter to me at all and doesn't affect
> me in any way, so Bob's your uncle!  Mitzi lives!  /evil grin/
>
> Black listing people based on rumor and innuendo and possibly flat out 
> lies
> has got to go!
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:36 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
> Guide Dogs of America and GDB for believing fabricated stories.  The "busy
> body" I referred to in my post is someone who fabricates stories here
> locally and she is known to do this for years.   In other words, she 
> doesn't
>
> have much real credibility aroound here and wwe're glad she moved out of
> town although we see her around from time to time.  She personally doesn't
> like me for my refusal to be intimidated by her and that I am LGBT.
>
> I know that people get good dogs from them and that's fine.  I just will
> never go back there again. I don't dump on either school and respect
> people's choices as to where they wish to get their dog from.  This is all
> my own personal experiences with these two schools, that's all.
>
> Also, as a result of the refusal of services by GDA, I got turned down by
> GDB - with the "giving my retired guide to another person to use as a 
> guide"
>
> rationale. Whatever.  I'm glad I went back to TSE.
>
> Whether we realize it of not, these schools talk to each other about
> prospective students. What I was upset about is that GDB believed the
> stories rather than finding out the truth about me and what really 
> happened
> with the retired guide dog.
>
> When I applied to TSE, I told them about this situation because I thought
> they might hear it from someone other than from me.  As far as TSE was
> concerned, I already had a track record with them and they accepted me 
> back
> with no problem.  I have had nothing but adult treatment and respect from
> TSE.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>
>
>> hay Lyn
>> Witch School in california did you go to?  That is crazy they treated you
>> like that
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:19 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>> Got that right, Marion!
>>
>> Back in 1990, I went to a California guide dog school. While at the
>> school,
>> I befriended a man there who was on class with me.  this man's brother 
>> was
>> also in the same class and the two brothers did NOT get along with each
>> other.  Why they were put into the same class, I don't know.  However 
>> they
>> did.  The brother of they guy I hung out with would do stuff to irritate
>> his
>> brother like come into the room where we were sitting and blow cigarette
>> smoke at us.  I asked the brother to not do this as I never did anything
>> to
>> him and that we should be adults on class even if the two of them didn't
>> get
>> along.
>>
>> Well, after that, the instructor called the three of us - individually -
>> into his office and proceeded to threaten us with being sent home without
>> our dogs if the crap didn't stop.  Well, I was VERY upset over this
>> treatment especially since I was doing NOTHING wrong or breaking any of
>> the
>> house rules or disrespecting any other person there.  Fortunately, the
>> crap
>> stopped and we all went home with our dogs.
>>
>> Then, when I retired the dog and wanted to return for another one, the
>> school said I violated the contract by "giving my retired dog to another
>> person to use as a guide" - which was not true!  I gave the dog to the
>> woman's husband for a PET as my friend already had a guide dog from that
>> same school. These people moved out of state and she sent her dog back 
>> and
>> then used my retired dog as her guide.  They moved back here, a local
>> busybody saw her with my dog and reported to the school.  The trainer 
>> came
>> to talk to us and I told him that I gave the dog to the husband and that 
>> I
>> mailed the harness back. I thought it was all clear and then I got denied
>> when I applied for a dog with that school six months later.   I was 
>> denied
>> service by this school.  that was fine - it got me to venture across the
>> country to go back to TSE for my next dog and I've been with TSE ever
>> since!
>>
>> WE need to find the schools who respect us and not be paternalistic
>> towards
>> us and stick with their program!  You're right, marion, the schools EXIST
>> because of the blind people who want guide dogs and they must realize 
>> this
>> and be respectful towards us.
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:32 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>>
>>> Brittney,
>>>    I object to the characteristic of the guide dog consumer as a
>>> "beggar". Guide dog training programs raise millions of dollars each 
>>> year
>
>>> with the assertion that they are doing something beneficial and 
>>> enhancing
>
>>> for the blind. Donors - many of whom are their own consumers - donate
>>> these millions with the same intent. If it were not for us, those
>>> employed by the training programs would not be earning their livings.
>>>    The idea that we have no say and must settle for whatever we receive
>>> with no rights to address abuse or maltreatment is archaic. Most 
>>> training
>
>>> programs obviously view their blind consumers as nothing more than wards
>>> who are unable to govern their own lives, let alone take care of a dog.
>>> What other reason would they have for not transferring ownership upon
>>> completion of the program? I have heard many justifications and
>>> rationalizations for this paternalistic practice but none of them are
>>> convincing. It is time for us to discard the notion that we are beholden
>>> to the training programs and demand to be treated equitably and with the
>>> dignity many of these programs mistakenly assert they provide.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:08 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Do we have rights as guide dog users?  Most schools give us our dogs 
>>>> for
>
>>>> free or they charge a small fee that I think is extremely cheap.
>>>> Beggers can't be choosers  I guess.  I think we should be informed of
>>>> any alergy or behavior problem but sometimes we aren't.  I think the
>>>> schools try there best we can't blame them for things that they may 
>>>> have
>
>>>> missed.  My guide has alergies, I found this after I brought her home. 
>>>> I
>
>>>> contacted the school I got her from,  and they helped me find a food
>>>> that didn't cause her problems.  A lot of people I know there guide 
>>>> dogs
>
>>>> have alergies, I don't know why, I guess things just happen.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:43 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Hi guys,
>>>> As a side discussion to this, it seems to me that many more dogs are
>>>> cropping up with one kind or another allergy these days.  When I lived
>>>> back
>>>> east I never really encountered this problem until I moved to
>>>> California.
>>>> Now I hear that the dogs in the east coast have this problem as well -
>>>> actually dogs all over the US.  Is this my imagination or are the dogs
>>>> coming out of the schools now actually having more allergies?  Input
>>>> anyone?
>>>>
>>>> The Bill of Rights thing sounds good to me.  I think the schools do 
>>>> what
>>>> they can to try to make sure that the dogs we get are in good health.
>>>> But
>>>> these same dogs go through the hands of puppy raisers who either want
>>>> their
>>>> dog to suceed as a guide for a blind person or they want it to fail so
>>>> they
>>>> can keep it as a pet (I actually encountered a puppy raiser like this -
>>>> they
>>>> got found out and dropped from the program.).  I wonder if the only 
>>>> info
>
>>>> on
>>>> a given dog is only that provided by the puppy raiser in their reports
>>>> to
>>>> the school.  then there are the problems that nobody forsees like
>>>> regional
>>>> allergies or other problems that come up after the dog is exposed to
>>>> something as a ongoing thing after it goes out with a graduate.
>>>>
>>>> JUst wondering about these things. And then a dog is a living being and
>>>> there's no guarentees.
>>>>
>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:43 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Marion, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consumers shall receive verbal and written notification by the school
>>>>> when a food allergy has been identified by the puppy raiser and or the
>>>>> assigned veterinarian.  With holding such vital information could have
>>>>> devastating results for the guide dog team.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa,
>>>>>>    Let me ask you to complete this statement as it pertains to the
>>>>>> issues you raise. Please keep the statement succinct, about one or 
>>>>>> two
>
>>>>>> sentences. Anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is welcome to 
>>>>>> do
>
>>>>>> so. As a guideline, here is the statement that would precede this 
>>>>>> one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a.       Consumers shall expect that every effort shall be made to
>>>>>> provide dogs in excellent health and appropriate temperament
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, complete this statement to provide that the program discloses
>>>>>> this information:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The guide dog training program shall disclose ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I look forward to your input on our Bill of Rights!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:16 AM
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] when should schools give information about dog 
>>>>>> guides
>
>>>>>> and re issued guides
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe  the school has an obligation to be up front with the
>>>>>>> student. I respect  that the school doesn't want to set the student
>>>>>>> or the dog up for frustration and failure. This is what I base my
>>>>>>> belief on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My first guide dog was a sweet and stubborn Goldie. She was a 
>>>>>>> finicky
>
>>>>>>> eater too. The school said nothing about her propensity to not eat.
>>>>>>> However, the puppy raiser did tell me on the sly.  I was told that
>>>>>>> from the "get-go" my Goldie was a fussy eater. The puppyraisers used
>>>>>>> unconventional ways to get her to eat. They sprinkled Parmashon
>>>>>>> cheese on her food. That's all right by me. They also 'fessed up to
>>>>>>> slipping her people food. I'm glad they told me. It helped me be on
>>>>>>> the alert.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My second dog, Louie, was a ever hungry Labrador. The puppyraisers
>>>>>>> said something about all of his allergies and how he needed special
>>>>>>> food. I disregarded what they said because I figured if my dog had
>>>>>>> various food allergies the school would know and they would tell me.
>>>>>>> Louie is the dog I returned because I thought he had behavioral
>>>>>>> issues. No, he had very severe food allergies which explained why he
>>>>>>> learned to get the bungy cords off the trash cans and feast. He also
>>>>>>> feasted on animal feces too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bernie, my third guide dog, probably has some food allergies. Not
>>>>>>> wanting a sad repeat of the previous food related experiences with
>>>>>>> Louie, I nipped the problem in the bud. That is, Bernie ate two
>>>>>>> different dog foods  that left him with gooey poo.  Bernie eats  a
>>>>>>> fresh and whole food quality dog food. The joke is, I can eat the
>>>>>>> dog's food if I really want a truly healthy and balanced diet.{In
>>>>>>> Bernie's food is: salmon, barley, beets, carrots and ginger and 
>>>>>>> other
>
>>>>>>> items{.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie ,  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:05 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>> Quite true.  Though I'd be happy if the puppy raiser would let me
>>>>>>>> know if,
>>>>>>>> say, the dog was a habitual counter surfer.  Though they probably
>>>>>>>> wouldn't, for fear of getting their puppy dropped from training.
>>>>>>>> I figure knowledge is power, and I'm a big girl who won't go nuts
>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>> little problems.  But you're probably right that no one is going to
>>>>>>>> tell
>>>>>>>> me all I'd like to know.
>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>>>>>>>>> I was just comparing it to what we know about the guides we 
>>>>>>>>> receive
>
>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> not reissues.  They normally don't tell us about those things when
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect them to for a
>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>> because it was a reissue.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I buy your argument.  There could be plenty of
>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>>>>>>>>>> behaviors I might never think to mention.  For example, Ben
>>>>>>>>>> empties on
>>>>>>>>>> route.  The best I've managed to do is teach him to pull over
>>>>>>>>>> first. To
>>>>>>>>>> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did not occur to
>>>>>>>>>> me
>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>> the matching process to say so, any more than I would think to
>>>>>>>>>> mention
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces coming untied
>>>>>>>>>> every 5
>>>>>>>>>> minutes.
>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of any undesirable
>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>> the school is aware of, so I could either take immediate steps to
>>>>>>>>>> correct
>>>>>>>>>> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at all.  You can bet,
>>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>>> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog who empties on
>>>>>>>>>> route.
>>>>>>>>>> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer instead. 
>>>>>>>>>> <grimace.>
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peggy,
>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really need to know
>>>>>>>>>>> why the
>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to impact you.
>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to know is if 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need
>>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something else that is
>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than usual.  But then
>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> think a handler should know this about any dog regardless if its
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>>>>>>>>>>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler wants, and
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>>>>>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be any problems.
>>>>>>>>>>> If the
>>>>>>>>>>> previous handler returned the dog because they didn't like
>>>>>>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed, etc, that
>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>>>>>>>>>>> too much either because if the new handler specifically doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>> deal
>>>>>>>>>>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to request a 
>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food
>>>>>>>>>>> distraction
>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>>> at all.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match didn't work, I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>> curious
>>>>>>>>>>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that information.
>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>>>>>>>>>>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she is one of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever had.  As I said I'll always wonder why her previous
>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> school,
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to do.  She lived in
>>>>>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a while.  It was
>>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>>>>>>>>>>>> that she was still workable and was then matched with me and
>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>>>>>>>>>>>> out wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sarah Clark
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner
>>>>>>>>>>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or classify them
>>>>>>>>>>>> all in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same category.  True that an occasional dog that is a reissue
>>>>>>>>>>>> may have
>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too hard to handle
>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> handler, or certain health conditions that wouldn't stop the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal with, etc, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at all.  Maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> the dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home and realized
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to my husband
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> guide
>>>>>>>>>>>> many years ago).  Maybe it just wasn't a good match.  Or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just couldn't handle 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> extreme
>>>>>>>>>>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if the school
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks the
>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking for.  Its also true
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> have the experience under their belt so are often more seasoned
>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> younger dogs.  Though it is clear that some applicants don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> want them
>>>>>>>>>>>> because each school I have applied to has asked during the
>>>>>>>>>>>> interview
>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>>>> be open to having one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been reissued.  This dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>was with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and the dog was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>him and my friend got this same dog.  Boy, what stories this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>dog
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>have told if he could talk!  It was a very nice dog and she
>>>>>>>>>>>>>worked
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a guide dog, I keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a second 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them; first time out,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or re
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittney,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question.  That's one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-training, and my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive experience with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more favorable view
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have done well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-issued
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people...  /smile/  Still, I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have explained, and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the most part.  There will certainly be times when it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting...  As a still pretty 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner-trainer
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the attitudes and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of experience as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closely as I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of the long-timers.  I can watch my peers in that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming along not just 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from those with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on myself but on a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going through or just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team building phase:  We over-react.  To everything.  /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, the mundane...  It is all new and exciting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frightening and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief.  We popped out to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dinner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just this one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our table...  Outwardly, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remained
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay.  Inwardly, what did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG!  How can this be?  What can it mean?  Oh, no, this is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened that was worth
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuss and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got over it.  /smile/  More and more, it's all old hat, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-issue dog...  I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the first year 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always be something that will make you absolutely crazy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more magnified in your own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly experience dhandler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly, but it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habit for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs.  So you really 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing and try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counteract and...  Well, on and on.  It just takes awhile 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become havit and natural.  I've only been there for a short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- and that sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're coming through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tream
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one -- which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your guide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I move into 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for granted phase.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a second owner if it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me.  I don't think that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a lot of bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are  really hard to get rid of.  I love my  dog very muchand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop a lot of her
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habbits, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we still have some work to do.  What do you guys think? am I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lirving1234%40cox.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
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> et
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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> l.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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