[nagdu] guide dog school surveys

Marion Gwizdala blind411 at verizon.net
Thu Apr 28 12:20:43 UTC 2011


Gary,
    Thank you very much for your input. I am forwarding your message to 
Cathryn Bonnette, the Chair of the ad hoc committee working on the survey.

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "GARY STEEVES" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dog school surveys


>
> Hi Tami:
>
> I'm not sure if you are the one looking after this but if the old survey 
> was going to be re-visited, it would be great of the Canadian schools were 
> added and asked to fill out the questionaire. Although I do not think they 
> allow people from the states to use their programs, many Canadians get 
> guide dogs and would benefit from this information. As you all are 
> probably aware, Canadians are welcome at most guide dog programs in the 
> states.
>
> Thanks
> Gary
> :
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> Date: Friday, April 22, 2011 12:39 pm
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>> Julie,
>>
>> Don't have an answer off hand about which contracts are
>> available on the
>> internet just now.  They will be soon as part of our
>> consumer satisfaction
>> survey project and our update of the information we're in the
>> process of
>> gathering from the schools themselves to post on the
>> website.  I have it on
>> good authority that the webmaster is thinking hard about how
>> best to
>> organize this information so that is easy to find and easy to
>> use.  I can be
>> hoped she will figure it out by the time she has the new
>> information to put
>> on the site.  /grin/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 10:20 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>> I guess I thought GDA gave true legal ownership.  That
>> doesn't sound like
>> what they offer.  that's kind of disappointing.
>>
>> Does anyone know if the ownership contracts of any of the
>> programs are
>> available on the internet?  For me, being able to read the
>> contract would
>> help me immensely in deciding if that is a program I would want
>> to apply to.
>>
>> It seems a large waste of everyone's time to apply, be accepted
>> and then
>> read the contract only to find out it isn't something I'm
>> willing to sign.
>>
>> thoughts?
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 7:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>>
>>
>> > Julie
>> > They give ownership of your dog to you,  but if they hear
>> that your dog is
>>
>> > being abused or someone other than you is using your guide dog
>> they have
>> > the right to take your dog At least that's what they told me.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message----- 
>> > From: Julie J
>> > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:48 PM
>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >
>> > Brittney,
>> >
>> > I thought GDA gave ownership to their grads.  Is there
>> something in the
>> > contract that allows them to take a dog you own?  I'm confused.
>> >
>> > I'm glad it all worked out in the end, but sorry you had to go
>> through
>> > that.
>> >
>> > Julie
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users"> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:23 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi Tami  and Lyn,
>> >> I would like to thank both of you for sharing your
>> experiences.Both of
>> >> you guys stories have helped me out.  I can't put it
>> into words how much.
>>
>> >> I got my dog from GDA and nothing against anyone who goes
>> there but man
>> >> they LOVE LOVE good stories.  I found this out about six
>> months ago. My
>> >> grandmother told them that my X boy friend hits and kicks my
>> guide dog
>> >> and they believed her.  They took my dog and then gave
>> her back after
>> >> they couldn't find any proof that she had been abused.
>> It was a totally
>> >> uncool experience.    Yes the fabracated
>> stories have to stop. I thought
>> >> that I was the only one who has had some person make up a
>> story about
>> >> them and have the school take someone elses side but yours.I
>> am just
>> >> thankful I got my dog back.  I am glad that I now
>> know  know that the
>> >> schools talk to each other.I hope this issue does not effect
>> me if I ever
>>
>> >> apply for another guide.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks a bunch
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message----- 
>> >> From: Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> >> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:34 AM
>> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users'
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >>
>> >> Lyn,
>> >>
>> >> Had that experience with my application to GDB, through the
>> Boring
>> >> campus,
>> >> which I attempted to finish up after the big disaster at
>> Oregon
>> >> Commission
>> >> for the Blind.  Oh, they definitely talk to each other,
>> too!  And the GDB
>> >> interviewer and, apparently, the selection committee, clearly
>> believed
>> >> them
>> >> hook line and sinker!
>> >>
>> >> So the one reason given that was GDB's own is that I had set
>> a load of
>> >> laundry by the kitchen door to the basement because the
>> washers were
>> >> full.
>> >> It was still there when she arrived for the home interview,
>> so when I
>> >> showed
>> >> her around, I explained that I'd set it there for later
>> instead of
>> >> carrying
>> >> it up another flight of stairs in my house and having to
>> carry it down
>> >> that
>> >> same extra flight later on when it was my turn for the
>> laundry room.
>> >> Apparently, if I will do such a carefless, negligent,
>> dangerous thing
>> >> when
>> >> there is no dog in the house, I will almost certainly kill
>> any guide dog
>> >> of
>> >> theirs because it will eat a sock and die.  Turns out,
>> that did
>> >> apparently
>> >> happen to one of their dogs way back in the mists of
>> history.  So I've
>> >> heard
>> >> others scratching their heads about the dire danger of socks
>> and how come
>> >> they have to keep hearing about how their going to kill their
>> dogs if
>> >> they
>> >> drop a sock on the floor.  Very odd.  I'm not
>> knocking the program or
>> >> their
>> >> dogs, since we all know they turn out good dogs and happy
>> grads who
>> >> somehow
>> >> manage to avoid the dangers of lurking killer socks.
>> >>
>> >> The other two points in the letter were straight from Oregon
>> Commission
>> >> for
>> >> the Blind, almost verbatim.  The mobility instructor -- 
>> who also did some
>> >> in-home living skills instructing -- reported that my ability
>> to navigate
>> >> and orient, along with my ability to accomplish household
>> tasks without
>> >> assistance from her, allowing her to play spider solitaire on
>> my
>> >> computer,
>> >> indicated that I was using my really great vision to do these
>> things.
>> >> She
>> >> did not -- or the letter from GDB did not mention this detail
>> -- that I
>> >> was
>> >> performing those tasks under sleep shade.  Anyway, since
>> I had really
>> >> great
>> >> vision and didn't need a guide dog and would most certainly
>> screw it up
>> >> if
>> >> it lived long enough what with the socks and all, they
>> preferred to save
>> >> their dogs for blind people who needed them.  Sigh.
>> >>
>> >> Also, because of what had happened when I came across the
>> state to the
>> >> Living Skills Center and nearly ended up dead, it appeared I
>> had some
>> >> serious mental health issues and would, you know, do bad
>> things to the
>> >> dog.
>> >> Um...  I had a real problem with that one, since I was
>> getting through
>> >> the
>> >> PTSD from all that, and had been declared in the aftermath by
>> not one but
>> >> three licensed and qualified professionals using metric tools
>> and
>> >> everything
>> >> to be quite sane otherwise and to be handling the PTSD in a
>> surprisingly>> mentally healthy way even before I got into
>> counseling for it.  Also, it
>> >> seemed to me that it might be helpful for me to know if the
>> OCB had
>> >> crossed
>> >> the line somewhere in what they communicated to the guide dog
>> program
>> >> when
>> >> they submitted the O&M assessment the program required.
>> I had been quite
>> >> open with the interviewer from GDB, and I did give them a
>> release of
>> >> information from the counselor I was still seeing for the
>> PTSD, then
>> >> chatted
>> >> about it in session while going through the status check part
>> of the
>> >> conversation.  The counselor's input matched with my
>> general perception
>> >> of
>> >> my own reality -- still got a ways to go, but doing well, can
>> expect a
>> >> good
>> >> outcome, have coping skills to use in moving along, etc.,
>> etc.  She
>> >> didn't
>> >> tell me what she planned to report to GDB, or what she did
>> report, which
>> >> seemed pretty professional of her, so I didn't really worry
>> about it.
>> >> She
>> >> struck me as the type to do her job as she should, which was
>> to give an
>> >> accurate report on my mental health status...
>> >>
>> >> I did want to discuss the issue with the interviewer from
>> GDB, though, to
>> >> find out what was going on there, how to correctly translate
>> their
>> >> statement
>> >> from the letter, and to find out what I needed to do to
>> resolve the issue
>>
>> >> in
>> >> the event I decided to reapply at the appropriate
>> time...  No return
>> >> communication.  Tried the boss...  Nope!  At
>> that point, I noticed that I
>> >> seem to have ordered a poodle to be delivered to my home and
>> had better
>> >> things to do than worry about what a bunch of strangers
>> thought of how
>> >> dangerous crazy I must be.  Doesn't matter to me at all
>> and doesn't
>> >> affect
>> >> me in any way, so Bob's your uncle!  Mitzi lives!
>> /evil grin/
>> >>
>> >> Black listing people based on rumor and innuendo and possibly
>> flat out
>> >> lies
>> >> has got to go!
>> >>
>> >> Tami Smith-Kinney
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >> Behalf
>> >> Of Lyn Gwizdak
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:36 AM
>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >>
>> >> Guide Dogs of America and GDB for believing fabricated
>> stories.  The
>> >> "busy
>> >> body" I referred to in my post is someone who fabricates
>> stories here
>> >> locally and she is known to do this for years.   In
>> other words, she
>> >> doesn't
>> >>
>> >> have much real credibility aroound here and wwe're glad she
>> moved out of
>> >> town although we see her around from time to time.  She
>> personally
>> >> doesn't
>> >> like me for my refusal to be intimidated by her and that I am LGBT.
>> >>
>> >> I know that people get good dogs from them and that's
>> fine.  I just will
>> >> never go back there again. I don't dump on either school and
>> respect>> people's choices as to where they wish to get their
>> dog from.  This is
>> >> all
>> >> my own personal experiences with these two schools, that's all.
>> >>
>> >> Also, as a result of the refusal of services by GDA, I got
>> turned down by
>> >> GDB - with the "giving my retired guide to another person to
>> use as a
>> >> guide"
>> >>
>> >> rationale. Whatever.  I'm glad I went back to TSE.
>> >>
>> >> Whether we realize it of not, these schools talk to each
>> other about
>> >> prospective students. What I was upset about is that GDB
>> believed the
>> >> stories rather than finding out the truth about me and what
>> really
>> >> happened
>> >> with the retired guide dog.
>> >>
>> >> When I applied to TSE, I told them about this situation
>> because I thought
>> >> they might hear it from someone other than from me.  As
>> far as TSE was
>> >> concerned, I already had a track record with them and they
>> accepted me
>> >> back
>> >> with no problem.  I have had nothing but adult treatment
>> and respect from
>> >> TSE.
>> >>
>> >> Lyn and Landon
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>> >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users"
>> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 5:39 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> hay Lyn
>> >>> Witch School in california did you go to?  That is
>> crazy they treated
>> >>> you
>> >>> like that
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message----- 
>> >>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 4:19 PM
>> >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >>>
>> >>> Got that right, Marion!
>> >>>
>> >>> Back in 1990, I went to a California guide dog school. While
>> at the
>> >>> school,
>> >>> I befriended a man there who was on class with me.
>> this man's brother
>> >>> was
>> >>> also in the same class and the two brothers did NOT get
>> along with each
>> >>> other.  Why they were put into the same class, I don't
>> know.  However
>> >>> they
>> >>> did.  The brother of they guy I hung out with would do
>> stuff to irritate
>> >>> his
>> >>> brother like come into the room where we were sitting and
>> blow cigarette
>> >>> smoke at us.  I asked the brother to not do this as I
>> never did anything
>> >>> to
>> >>> him and that we should be adults on class even if the two of
>> them didn't
>> >>> get
>> >>> along.
>> >>>
>> >>> Well, after that, the instructor called the three of us -
>> individually -
>> >>> into his office and proceeded to threaten us with being sent
>> home
>> >>> without
>> >>> our dogs if the crap didn't stop.  Well, I was VERY
>> upset over this
>> >>> treatment especially since I was doing NOTHING wrong or
>> breaking any of
>> >>> the
>> >>> house rules or disrespecting any other person there.
>> Fortunately, the
>> >>> crap
>> >>> stopped and we all went home with our dogs.
>> >>>
>> >>> Then, when I retired the dog and wanted to return for
>> another one, the
>> >>> school said I violated the contract by "giving my retired
>> dog to another
>> >>> person to use as a guide" - which was not true!  I gave
>> the dog to the
>> >>> woman's husband for a PET as my friend already had a guide
>> dog from that
>> >>> same school. These people moved out of state and she sent
>> her dog back
>> >>> and
>> >>> then used my retired dog as her guide.  They moved back
>> here, a local
>> >>> busybody saw her with my dog and reported to the
>> school.  The trainer
>> >>> came
>> >>> to talk to us and I told him that I gave the dog to the
>> husband and that
>>
>> >>> I
>> >>> mailed the harness back. I thought it was all clear and then
>> I got
>> >>> denied
>> >>> when I applied for a dog with that school six months
>> later.   I was
>> >>> denied
>> >>> service by this school.  that was fine - it got me to
>> venture across the
>> >>> country to go back to TSE for my next dog and I've been with
>> TSE ever
>> >>> since!
>> >>>
>> >>> WE need to find the schools who respect us and not be
>> paternalistic>>> towards
>> >>> us and stick with their program!  You're right, marion,
>> the schools
>> >>> EXIST
>> >>> because of the blind people who want guide dogs and they
>> must realize
>> >>> this
>> >>> and be respectful towards us.
>> >>>
>> >>> Lyn and Landon
>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> >>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users"
>> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2011 2:32 AM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Brittney,
>> >>>>    I object to the characteristic of the
>> guide dog consumer as a
>> >>>> "beggar". Guide dog training programs raise millions of
>> dollars each
>> >>>> year
>> >>
>> >>>> with the assertion that they are doing something beneficial
>> and
>> >>>> enhancing
>> >>
>> >>>> for the blind. Donors - many of whom are their own
>> consumers - donate
>> >>>> these millions with the same intent. If it were not for us, those
>> >>>> employed by the training programs would not be earning
>> their livings.
>> >>>>    The idea that we have no say and must
>> settle for whatever we receive
>> >>>> with no rights to address abuse or maltreatment is archaic.
>> Most
>> >>>> training
>> >>
>> >>>> programs obviously view their blind consumers as nothing
>> more than
>> >>>> wards
>> >>>> who are unable to govern their own lives, let alone take
>> care of a dog.
>> >>>> What other reason would they have for not transferring
>> ownership upon
>> >>>> completion of the program? I have heard many justifications and
>> >>>> rationalizations for this paternalistic practice but none
>> of them are
>> >>>> convincing. It is time for us to discard the notion that we
>> are
>> >>>> beholden
>> >>>> to the training programs and demand to be treated equitably
>> and with
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> dignity many of these programs mistakenly assert they provide.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Fraternally yours,
>> >>>> Marion Gwizdala
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>>> From: "Brittney N. Mejico" <brittneymejico at verizon.net>
>> >>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users"
>> >>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 7:08 PM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Hi,
>> >>>>> Do we have rights as guide dog users?  Most schools
>> give us our dogs
>> >>>>> for
>> >>
>> >>>>> free or they charge a small fee that I think is extremely cheap.
>> >>>>> Beggers can't be choosers  I guess.  I think we
>> should be informed of
>> >>>>> any alergy or behavior problem but sometimes we
>> aren't.  I think the
>> >>>>> schools try there best we can't blame them for things that
>> they may
>> >>>>> have
>> >>
>> >>>>> missed.  My guide has alergies, I found this after I
>> brought her home.
>>
>> >>>>> I
>> >>
>> >>>>> contacted the school I got her from,  and they helped
>> me find a food
>> >>>>> that didn't cause her problems.  A lot of people I
>> know there guide
>> >>>>> dogs
>> >>
>> >>>>> have alergies, I don't know why, I guess things just happen.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>> >>>>> From: Lyn Gwizdak
>> >>>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:43 PM
>> >>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi guys,
>> >>>>> As a side discussion to this, it seems to me that many
>> more dogs are
>> >>>>> cropping up with one kind or another allergy these
>> days.  When I lived
>> >>>>> back
>> >>>>> east I never really encountered this problem until I moved to
>> >>>>> California.
>> >>>>> Now I hear that the dogs in the east coast have this
>> problem as well -
>> >>>>> actually dogs all over the US.  Is this my
>> imagination or are the dogs
>> >>>>> coming out of the schools now actually having more
>> allergies?  Input
>> >>>>> anyone?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Bill of Rights thing sounds good to me.  I think
>> the schools do
>> >>>>> what
>> >>>>> they can to try to make sure that the dogs we get are in
>> good health.
>> >>>>> But
>> >>>>> these same dogs go through the hands of puppy raisers who
>> either want
>> >>>>> their
>> >>>>> dog to suceed as a guide for a blind person or they want
>> it to fail so
>> >>>>> they
>> >>>>> can keep it as a pet (I actually encountered a puppy
>> raiser like
>> >>>>> this -
>> >>>>> they
>> >>>>> got found out and dropped from the program.).  I
>> wonder if the only
>> >>>>> info
>> >>
>> >>>>> on
>> >>>>> a given dog is only that provided by the puppy raiser in
>> their reports
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> the school.  then there are the problems that nobody
>> forsees like
>> >>>>> regional
>> >>>>> allergies or other problems that come up after the dog is
>> exposed to
>> >>>>> something as a ongoing thing after it goes out with a graduate.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> JUst wondering about these things. And then a dog is a
>> living being
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>> there's no guarentees.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Lyn and Landon
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>> >>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
>> Dog Users"
>> >>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 10:43 PM
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Marion, I'm not quite sure what I'm doing here.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Consumers shall receive verbal and written notification
>> by the school
>> >>>>>> when a food allergy has been identified by the puppy
>> raiser and or
>> >>>>>> the
>> >>>>>> assigned veterinarian.  With holding such vital
>> information could
>> >>>>>> have
>> >>>>>> devastating results for the guide dog team.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> >>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog Users"
>> >>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 3:26 AM
>> >>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Lisa and All: Bill of Rights
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Lisa,
>> >>>>>>>    Let me ask you to complete this
>> statement as it pertains to the
>> >>>>>>> issues you raise. Please keep the statement succinct,
>> about one or
>> >>>>>>> two
>> >>
>> >>>>>>> sentences. Anyone else who wants to take a stab at it is
>> welcome to
>> >>>>>>> do
>> >>
>> >>>>>>> so. As a guideline, here is the statement that would
>> precede this
>> >>>>>>> one.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> a.       Consumers shall
>> expect that every effort shall be made to
>> >>>>>>> provide dogs in excellent health and appropriate temperament
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Now, complete this statement to provide that the program
>> discloses>>>>>>> this information:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> The guide dog training program shall disclose ....
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I look forward to your input on our Bill of Rights!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> fraternally yours,
>> >>>>>>> Marion Gwizdala
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>> >>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>> >>>>>>> Users"
>> >>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 1:16 AM
>> >>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] when should schools give information
>> about dog
>> >>>>>>> guides
>> >>
>> >>>>>>> and re issued guides
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I believe  the school has an obligation to be up
>> front with the
>> >>>>>>>> student. I respect  that the school doesn't want
>> to set the student
>> >>>>>>>> or the dog up for frustration and failure. This is what
>> I base my
>> >>>>>>>> belief on.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> My first guide dog was a sweet and stubborn Goldie. She
>> was a
>> >>>>>>>> finicky
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> eater too. The school said nothing about her propensity
>> to not eat.
>> >>>>>>>> However, the puppy raiser did tell me on the sly.
>> I was told that
>> >>>>>>>> from the "get-go" my Goldie was a fussy eater. The
>> puppyraisers
>> >>>>>>>> used
>> >>>>>>>> unconventional ways to get her to eat. They sprinkled
>> Parmashon>>>>>>>> cheese on her food. That's all right by me.
>> They also 'fessed up to
>> >>>>>>>> slipping her people food. I'm glad they told me. It
>> helped me be on
>> >>>>>>>> the alert.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> My second dog, Louie, was a ever hungry Labrador. The
>> puppyraisers>>>>>>>> said something about all of his allergies
>> and how he needed special
>> >>>>>>>> food. I disregarded what they said because I figured if
>> my dog had
>> >>>>>>>> various food allergies the school would know and they
>> would tell
>> >>>>>>>> me.
>> >>>>>>>> Louie is the dog I returned because I thought he had
>> behavioral>>>>>>>> issues. No, he had very severe food allergies
>> which explained why
>> >>>>>>>> he
>> >>>>>>>> learned to get the bungy cords off the trash cans and
>> feast. He
>> >>>>>>>> also
>> >>>>>>>> feasted on animal feces too.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Bernie, my third guide dog, probably has some food
>> allergies. Not
>> >>>>>>>> wanting a sad repeat of the previous food related
>> experiences with
>> >>>>>>>> Louie, I nipped the problem in the bud. That is, Bernie
>> ate two
>> >>>>>>>> different dog foods  that left him with gooey
>> poo.  Bernie eats  a
>> >>>>>>>> fresh and whole food quality dog food. The joke is, I
>> can eat the
>> >>>>>>>> dog's food if I really want a truly healthy and
>> balanced diet.{In
>> >>>>>>>> Bernie's food is: salmon, barley, beets, carrots and
>> ginger and
>> >>>>>>>> other
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> items{.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie ,  ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>> >>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>> >>>>>>>> Users"
>> >>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 12:05 PM
>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>> >>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>> >>>>>>>>> Quite true.  Though I'd be happy if the puppy
>> raiser would let me
>> >>>>>>>>> know if,
>> >>>>>>>>> say, the dog was a habitual counter surfer.
>> Though they probably
>> >>>>>>>>> wouldn't, for fear of getting their puppy dropped from
>> training.>>>>>>>>> I figure knowledge is power, and I'm a big
>> girl who won't go nuts
>> >>>>>>>>> over
>> >>>>>>>>> little problems.  But you're probably right that
>> no one is going
>> >>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>> tell
>> >>>>>>>>> me all I'd like to know.
>> >>>>>>>>> Tracy
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Tracy,
>> >>>>>>>>>> I was just comparing it to what we know about the
>> guides we
>> >>>>>>>>>> receive
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>> who
>> >>>>>>>>>> are
>> >>>>>>>>>> not reissues.  They normally don't tell us about
>> those things
>> >>>>>>>>>> when
>> >>>>>>>>>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>> receive a nonreissue, so I wouldn't really expect
>> them to for a
>> >>>>>>>>>> reissue
>> >>>>>>>>>> just
>> >>>>>>>>>> because it was a reissue.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>>>>> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
>> >>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>> >>>>>>>>>> Users"
>> >>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 11:20 AM
>> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>> >>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>> >>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sarah.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I don't think I buy your argument.  There could
>> be plenty of
>> >>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>> >>>>>>>>>>> behaviors I might never think to mention.  For
>> example, Ben
>> >>>>>>>>>>> empties on
>> >>>>>>>>>>> route.  The best I've managed to do is teach
>> him to pull over
>> >>>>>>>>>>> first. To
>> >>>>>>>>>>> me, this is a very undesirable behavior, but it did
>> not occur to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> me
>> >>>>>>>>>>> during
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the matching process to say so, any more than I
>> would think to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> mention
>> >>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> a shoe salesman that I don't want my shoe laces
>> coming untied
>> >>>>>>>>>>> every 5
>> >>>>>>>>>>> minutes.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I'd like to at least be made aware of
>> any
>> >>>>>>>>>>> undesirable
>> >>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the school is aware of, so I could either take
>> immediate steps
>> >>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> correct
>> >>>>>>>>>>> it, or decide I don't want to deal with it at
>> all.  You can bet,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> next
>> >>>>>>>>>>> time, I'll say very loudly that I don't want a dog
>> who empties
>> >>>>>>>>>>> on
>> >>>>>>>>>>> route.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Then they'll probably give me a counter surfer
>> instead.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> <grimace.>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Peggy,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking about it, you probably don't even really
>> need to know
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> why the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> match
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> didn't work, if its not something that is going to
>> impact you.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> only
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> reason I can think of that a handler would need to
>> know is if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> has
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> some kind of medical condition where it is going to need
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> food, or baths every couple weeks, or something
>> else that is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> going to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> real hassel and/or cost a lot more money than
>> usual.  But then
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> again,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> think a handler should know this about any dog
>> regardless if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> its
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> reissue
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> or not.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As long as the reissue matches what the new handler
>> wants, and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> handler
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> is specific in what they want, there shouldn't be
>> any problems.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> previous handler returned the dog because they
>> didn't like
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> something
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> such
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> as
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> that the dog scavenged a lot or counter surfed,
>> etc, that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> matter
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> too much either because if the new handler
>> specifically doesn't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> want to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> deal
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> with a major food distraction issue, they'd want to
>> request a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> isn't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> too food distracted, or ideally, who doesn't have a food
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> distraction
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> problem
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> at all.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:29 AM
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a second
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ownerifitdoesn'tworkout
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> with the first owner?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just it, you have no idea why the match
>> didn't work,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> curious
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to find out, but schools don't always provide that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> information.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> My
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> current Seeing Eye dog is a reissued dog and she
>> is one of the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> best
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have ever had.  As I said I'll always wonder
>> why her previous
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> match
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> work out but she is wonderful ... she was taken
>> back to the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> school,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> re-evaluated and whatever else they have to
>> do.  She lived in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> one of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> instructor's offices for supervision for quite a
>> while.  It
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> determined
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that she was still workable and was then matched
>> with me and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> turned
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> out wonderful.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Sarah Clark
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:15 PM
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
>> Guide Dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Users
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a
>> second owner
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ifitdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think you can turn down all reissues, or
>> classify them
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> all in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> same category.  True that an occasional dog
>> that is a reissue
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> may have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> sent back for unpleasant reasons like being too
>> hard to handle
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> handler, or certain health conditions that
>> wouldn't stop the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> working but that the handler didn't want to deal
>> with, etc,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are sent back for reasons that are not negative at
>> all.  Maybe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> walked too fast for the handler and they got home
>> and realized
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't slow the dog down (this happened to
>> my husband
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> guide
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> many years ago).  Maybe it just wasn't a good
>> match.  Or maybe
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> lived in a very hot climate and the dog just
>> couldn't handle
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> extreme
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> heat (also happened with someone I know).
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't think twice about taking a reissue if
>> the school
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> is a good match for me and what I'm looking
>> for.  Its also
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> true
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> have the experience under their belt so are often
>> more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> seasoned
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> younger dogs.  Though it is clear that some
>> applicants don't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> want them
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> because each school I have applied to has asked
>> during the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> interview
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be open to having one.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 3:01 PM
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a
>> second owner if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> itdoesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>I know a guy who had a guide who had been
>> reissued.  This dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>was with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>guy who got himself arrested and a jail term and
>> the dog was
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>taken
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>him and my friend got this same dog.  Boy,
>> what stories this
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>dog
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>could
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>have told if he could talk!  It was a very
>> nice dog and she
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>worked
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> well
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>for my friend and she had a good long working life.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association
>> of Guide Dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 1:24 AM
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a
>> second owner if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'tworkout with the first owner?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there, Tami and Brittney,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more I contemplate the re issuance of a
>> guide dog, I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much it means to me when someone gives me a
>> second
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chance.
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Our
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deserve as many chances as we can give them;
>> first time out,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or re
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> issued.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney"
>> <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing
>> List,the National Association of Guide
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dog
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Users'"
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 10:36 PM
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] should guides be given a
>> second owner
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn'twork out with the first owner?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brittney,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad you asked this question.  That's
>> one of those
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> program
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> policies
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran across while researching for owner-
>> training, and my
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> response
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the notion was very negative.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since then, I've heard of enough positive
>> experience with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs who
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reissued after being returned to have a more
>> favorable view
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I've heard is from people who have
>> done well
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> re-issued
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dogs or from people who know people...
>> /smile/  Still, I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and understand the reasoning others have
>> explained, and it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the most part.  There will certainly
>> be times when it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true of matches in general.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for whether you're over-reacting...  As
>> a still pretty
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat experienced guide dog handler, also an
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owner-trainer
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-taught handler, I've been observing the
>> attitudes and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ways of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of handlers at or just above my level of
>> experience as
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closely as I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those of the long-timers.  I can watch my
>> peers in that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself a reality check as to how I'm coming
>> along not just
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> skill
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maturity as a handler while I'm learning from
>> those with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So here's my observation, based not just on
>> myself but on a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generalized
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> group of other first time handlers going
>> through or just
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coming
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> team building phase:  We over-react.
>> To everything.  /lol/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, the mundane...  It is all new and
>> exciting and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> frightening and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful and awful, all beyond belief.
>> We popped out to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dinner
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evening, and at the restaurant there was just
>> this one
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one would have noticed beyond our
>> table...  Outwardly, I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remained
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calm
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responded correctly and it was all okay.
>> Inwardly, what
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /lol/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OMG!  How can this be?  What can it
>> mean?  Oh, no, this is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terrible!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then I noticed nothing had actually happened
>> that was worth
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fuss and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got over it.  /smile/  More and more,
>> it's all old hat, but
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apparently
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still freak out just fine over absolutely nothing.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for working through bad habits in your re-
>> issue dog...
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are right in their observations that during the
>> first year
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always be something that will make you
>> absolutely crazy
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your first dog, these will be far more
>> magnified in your
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those you work with later on as a truly
>> experience
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dhandler.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to be dealt with and modified, certainly,
>> but it's not
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habit for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you yet to deal with those ups and downs.
>> So you really
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way through it and notice every little thing
>> and try to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figure out
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counteract and...  Well, on and on.
>> It just takes awhile
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that to
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> become havit and natural.  I've only been
>> there for a short
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minor blips where I freak out over nothing -- 
>> and that sure
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nice!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck with your dog; sounds like you're
>> coming through
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tream
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building phase and are starting on the next one
>> -- which is
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> falls together and you're just you working your
>> guide.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /smile/
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loving
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that, and trying to hold onto that feeling as I
>> move into
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for granted phase.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Brittney N. Mejico
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:20 PM
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> NAGDU
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mailing
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] should guides be given a
>> second owner if
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out with the first owner?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My dog had another handler before me.  I
>> don't think that
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guides
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given another handlerbecause the dog picksup a
>> lot of bad
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habits
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are  really hard to get rid of.  I
>> love my  dog very
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muchand
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harvard
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changed my life, but it took me a year to stop
>> a lot of her
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bad
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> habbits, and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we still have some work to do.  What do
>> you guys think? am
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reacting?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/lirving1234%40cox.net
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To 
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n
>> >> et
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcgloba
>> >> l.net
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pshald%40neb.rr.com
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll
>> die today.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcgloba
>> >> l.net
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>> your account
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> info
>> >>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>> account
>> >>>>>>>>>>> info
>> >>>>>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/goldflash9%40sbcgloba
>> >> l.net
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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