[nagdu] Doctor bars guide dogfrom waiting room - phillyBurbs.com
Dan Weiner
dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net
Tue Aug 16 21:26:48 UTC 2011
All good points Tommy.
Thanks for sharing a bit of your situation with us.
I don't know if I'm big and hulking, but if I'm like the hulk than don't
make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry, then I turn
green--smile.
For those uninitiated, the Hulk was a TV series, this utterly nice guy was
exposed to gamma-rays--smile--and after that whenever he was angry or under
stress he'd become a green monster of ferocious strength.
See the things you miss by not being around in the seventies and eighties
all of my young friends?
The problem is that actually in those situations my heart climbs in to my
mouth so I probably don't assert myself the way I should, or I get angry and
obstinate.
Let's think, I'm single and don't plan kids to be part of my future...but if
it were say my best friend or my Mom or my sister what would I do?
I'd have to make a snap decision based on circumstances, the decision would
be either:
Push my way in with the dog and f--- them, or compromise because I'm so
worried about my Mom, friend, sister what have you.
So, therefore this Email has reached absolutely no conclusion except that I
don't blame any one for what they do under that circumstance of having say a
sick person and dealing with an uncooperative bigoted doctor.
So far, I've had one or two doctors give me a hard time and I stuck to my
guns, though it did cross my mind that they weren't giving me the attention
I deserve even though I had no evidence for this.
I had a cardiologist who, the first time had no problem with the dog and
then by the second appointment, six months later he had dog fears.
I asked why he didn't express this on our first appointment, not that I give
a good G-d damn and I got no answer. I suggested that he see about
consulting with a specialist.
After the exam I suggested that being a doctor he knew that these phobias
were treatable by anti-anxiety medication.
I'd love to see what he wrote on my record.
Then I had another genius who first claimed dog allergies and asked what
would happen if I left my dog home.
I explained that nothing would happen because the dog accompanies me.
The next appointment I asked how his allergies were thinking that I'd at
least feign some sympathy..."oh", he said after a long a pause "I don't have
any, I can't stand dogs and was trying to see if you'd leave him home
because I'm uncomfortable with having one here."
So, Hell, if I had lied about allergies I would have at least stuck to my
story, what a nut.
Of course, neither of these were emergencies.
Not sure if any of that helped anyone, but I hope you found it entertaining.
Now, this is an interesting thing I'm thinking about, why do we get so
anxious if we think there will be access issues. I've had a dog for 18
years, well, dogs--smile.
I cross busy streets go to strange places, and I rarely feel fear, just I
feel I should be cautious, but if I think there's going to be an access
issue, I do feel a surge of adrenaline.
Before I got a dog, I would feel this if I thought I'd be going somewhere
where they'd be reacting badly to my blindness, so it's interesting.
I suppose we all feel better when we are accepted and are shown that we are
welcome.
Let's hope things will evolve to the point that these things will happen
less and less until they are relics of history.
Dan and the Carter Dog
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tami Kinney
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 4:43 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Doctor bars guide dogfrom waiting room -
phillyBurbs.com
Ah, but Dan,
You big, strong, hulking fellows can tuck the kid under one arm, along with
the leash, and deck the doctor or whoever is standing between you and your
kid and what the kid needs. /evil grin/ We delicate, frail women folk don't
necessarily have that luxury. Then again, I've heard some amazing stories of
tiny, tiny women performing feats of physical prowess the Hulk himself
couldn't dream of to save a child from physical peril... So maybe that's not
it.
Still, when DD hauled BB off to the hospital in the opening phases of what
could have been a fatal heart attack, we didn't have to really discus the
part where I chose to "stay home with the dogs." By unbreakable policy, we
don't leave Mitzi at home with Daisy, no matter how far Daisy has come. With
an increasingly emergent situation, we just tersely agreed that possible
moral support or anything else I might bring with my presence and my poodle,
it wasn't worth the risk that we might lose time in getting BB to the
treatment he needed to stay alive because some fool chose to have a snit bit
about the poodle. DD didn't want to be distracted by worrying about it if it
did come up, either, because he was by then all but hauling BB physically
out the door, hoping to get him into the truck before he collapsed
completely. Not a small fella, our house mate. /smile/
Anyway, BB is finally perking up after all that, I don't have to worry about
what I will do if DD has a blood clot break free -- which I did for quite a
few weeks about a year ago, so no immediate worrying about where the guide
dog fits in to an emergency or even urgent situation involving a medical
facility... Not that I worried about that, but I did include the guide dog
and possible access issues into my strategic planning while I was figuring
out non visual ways to recognize symptoms in time. I am perfectly happy that
non of it ever came up. Having a choice, I think we made the right one when
BB had his emergency, which doesn't mean it doesn't still make me mad that
we had to make a choice or even think about it in passing in the year 2011.
BB is my house mate and a friend, not even my real big brother... If it had
been my kid... Well, that there is a 'whole 'nother ballgame, isn't it? I
don't think I can even extrapolate what a mother in the situation Rebecca
described with her daughter would feel or do, with or without a guide dog!
And sometimes, we do have to make choices in a hurry about what we're losing
when we face an access issue or might. Don't like it, but... So long as
there are doctors or other meidical personnel who would rather make a fuss
over a guide dog and break the law than treat a patient, denying that it
could happen to any of us is not so helpful as recognizing that it still
happens and that we need to have some idea how to handle it if it does.
JMNSHO.
Tami
On Mon, 2011-08-15 at 15:43 -0400, Dan Weiner wrote:
> Or you could say "mom needs something for her child, this doctor is
> preventing it from happening, not the dog"--smile.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
> Sent: Monday, August 15, 2011 3:40 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Doctor bars guide dogfrom waiting room -
> phillyBurbs.com
>
> Thank you Lynn.
> Marion, to answer your question, I never encountered a situation like
> the article that started the thread.
> I do know what I'd do in such a situation especially if my child was
> involved. I think, especially for moms, this is a primal thing "My
> child needs something, and this dog is keeping me from obtaining that"
>
> I also think that men view this issue very differently at least on a
> gut level.
>
> I'll go a step further and say that men want the problem fixed, women
> are the healers
>
> It's a different mindset as well as a different implementation.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Lyn Gwizdak
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:06 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Doctor bars guide dogfrom waiting room -
> phillyBurbs.com
>
> Exactly. And sometimes a person on list may have had to stop using
> dogs for whatever reason.
>
> Dog user or not, I enjoy your participation anyway!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 4:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Doctor bars guide dogfrom waiting room -
> phillyBurbs.com
>
>
> > Excuse me but I am amazed that anyone on this list would have an
> > attitude of exclusion. People who do not use guide dogs are very
> > supportive of us and are helpful and there are people who do not use
> > guide dogs who might want information to at least consider if they
> > want a
> guide dog.
> >
> > Please, let's be an inclusive list and not an excluding one.
> >
> > margo and Arrow
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "GARY STEEVES" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 6:16 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Doctor bars guide dog from waiting room -
> > phillyBurbs.com
> >
> >
> >>
> >> This one is a bit silly. Of course people can be on here who don't
> >> have dogs. How would people be able to gather information before
> >> deciding if they should get a dog. I know, before I got Bogart, the
> >> list was a great resource to answer question, be them silly or not,
> >> and certainly helped me be prepared for school when I got there.
> >>
> >> Sometimes I'm a little amazed at the closed attitudes of folks, be
> >> it here or anywhere else for that matter.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: d m gina <dmgina at samobile.net>
> >> Date: Thursday, August 11, 2011 1:57 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Doctor bars guide dog from waiting room -
> >> phillyBurbs.com
> >> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> >>
> >>> Hi there,
> >>> Since you don't have a dog and wish not to get one from this
> >>> message, why are you here on this list?
> >>> I understand the stand you took and yes you did the correct thing,
> >>> still want to know why you are on the list.
> >>> Is this list now open to anyone who wishes to come?
> >>> If so I understand, if not, then what is going to happen to
> >>> Rebecca, would she pleased be asked to be removed?
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Original message:
> >>> > You know, this is part of why I don't have a dog.
> >>> > My daughter had a sore throat that was impacting her ability
> >>> to eat. It
> >>> > is called kissing tonsels and she needed to be seen right now.
> >>> > I am glad I didn't have a dog to deal with.
> >>> > It's fine to say "I'll see somebody else" but what do you do
> >>> when you
> >>> > or your child needs to see somebody right now.
> >>> > My little girl was so sick and so hungry. It was horrible. She
> >>> was
> >>> > hungry but couldn't swallow food and she had a high fever.
> >>> Truly awful to see.
> >>> > How as a mom (or dad) would you feel if a doctor gave you that crap?
> >>> > My daughter was a toddler at the time. There's no way I could
> >>> have just
> >>> > said "Okay sweetie, go on in there and I'll chill out here"
> >>>
> >>> > Have other parents been in that situation? What have they done
> >>> about it?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> >>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>> > Behalf Of Sherry Gomes
> >>> > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:56 PM
> >>> > To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>> Users'> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Doctor bars guide dog from waiting
> >>> room
> >>> - phillyBurbs.com
> >>>
> >>> > I had an opposite experience with a doctor of mine once, a
> >>> very
> >>> > positive experience. when I lived in san Diego, I had an
> >>> orthopedic
> >>> > surgeon for my joint replacement surgeries. He was
> >>> really good and
> >>> > always seemed happy to see my then golden retriever guide
> >>> dog. one
> >>> > day, before I went to the back office for the appointment, the
> >>> front
> >>> > office staff took me aside, and told me privately that the
> >>> doctor had
> >>> > terrible dog allergies. They said he loved dogs and
> >>> never wanted to
> >>> > tell me about the allergies, so they never had. but this
> >>> particular
> >>> > day he was having trouble in general. They asked if I
> >>> would mind
> >>> > leaving her with my friend in the waiting room for this one
> >>> time. I
> >>> > didn't mind, actually, and I had my appointment. The doc
> >>> asked where
> >>> > my dog was, and I explained. He thanked me. But
> >>> the next appointment,
> >>> > my dog went into his office with me, as she always had done
> >>> before. It
> >>> > was only the one time they asked me to let my friend hold her,
> >>> and they
> >>> > wouldn't have argued if I'd insisted on taking her in with me.
> >>>
> >>> > On the other hand, if I went to a doctor's office that refused
> >>> to see
> >>> > me or my partner or spouse or child or whatever, cart blanche,
> >>> because
> >>> > of my dog, I would find a different doctor and be filing complaints.
> >>>
> >>> > Sherry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
> >>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>> > Behalf Of cheryl echevarria
> >>> > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 12:46 PM
> >>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> >>> > Users
> >>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Doctor bars guide dog from waiting room -
> >>> phillyBurbs.com
> >>> > This was also posted on my guide dog school alumni list.
> >>>
> >>> > I think it is appalling how this all turned out.
> >>>
> >>> > Whether there were other patients or not I go to my doctors
> >>> office
> >>> > probably more then others, I see at least 4 doctors a few
> >>> times a year,
> >>> > and some are smaller than other ones. I only had to put my
> >>> foot down
> >>> > once as well, he was from another country, but my doctor
> >>> recommended
> >>> > him, and was in the building right next door.
> >>>
> >>> > The Staff where he worked which was part of Stony Brook
> >>> University
> >>> > Hospital Clinics here on Long Island. They I had a right
> >>> to be there,
> >>> > the dog had a right to be there. He said well he can't see me
> >>> then, I
> >>> > said fine, I will just go next door to the Head of the
> >>> Transplant
> >>> > Department, and tell him he wouldn't see me because I have a
> >>> guide dog.
> >>>
> >>> > Let's just say, we found me another doctor in the same office
> >>> to see
> >>> > me, and that doctor has moved on.
> >>>
> >>> > Not much they can do. Yes they do. They also have to
> >>> determine if that
> >>> > is the kind of doctor they want to deal with as well.
> >>>
> >>> > Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
> >>>
> >>> > Cheryl Echevarria
> >>> > http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/
> >>> > >
> >>> > 631-456-5394
> >>> >
> >>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatr
> >>> av
> >>> el.com>
> >>> > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> >>> CST-1018299-10
> >>>
> >>> > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise &
> >>> Travel, Inc.
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: Ginger Kutsch<mailto:GingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
> >>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of
> >>> Guide Dog
> >>> > Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>> > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 1:38 PM
> >>> > Subject: [nagdu] Doctor bars guide dog from
> >>> waiting room - phillyBurbs.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Doctor bars guide dog from waiting room -
> >>> phillyBurbs.com
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_times_news/breaking_
> >>> ne
> >>> ws/doctor-bars-guide-dog-from-waiting-room/article_2bb1009f-5a51-5
> >>> 35
> >>> 0-bb2f-6783c4767b5a.html<http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/cou
> >>> ri
> >>> er_times_news/breaking_news/doctor-bars-guide-dog-from-waiting-roo
> >>> m/ article_2bb1009f-5a51-5350-bb2f-6783c4767b5a.html>
> >>>
> >>> > Doctor bars guide dog from waiting room
> >>>
> >>> > By Christian Menno
> >>>
> >>> > Staff writer
> >>>
> >>> > Thursday, August 11, 2011
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > ?A guide dog for a visually impaired Bensalem man
> >>> was kicked out of a
> >>> > local doctor s office, but the doctor said she had the right
> >>> to do so.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > But, according to a lawyer and advocate for the
> >>> disabled, the Lower
> >>> > Southampton doctor s actions violated the Americans with
> >>> Disabilities Act.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > You cannot exclude service animals except in very
> >>> specific
> >>> > situations, said Rocco Iaculla, an attorney with the
> >>> Disability Rights
> >>> > Network of Pennsylvania. Unless the animal is out of control
> >>> or not
> >>> > housebroken or someone nearby has a severe allergic reaction,
> >>> you must
> >>> > permit them in any area that the public is permitted. It has
> >>> to be more
> >>> > than someone feeling uncomfortable with an animal present.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Dr. Priya Punjabi argues that it is her right to
> >>> determine who enters
> >>> > the property and that a large animal could scare or upset her
> >>> patients.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > On Aug. 4, Joseph Cichonski accompanied his wife,
> >>> who was scheduled
> >>> > to receive a physical, to Punjabi s office at 1629 Bridgetown Pike.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > As he does whenever he leaves his home, Cichonski,
> >>> 58, brought his
> >>> > guide dog Hero, a Labrador-golden retriever mix.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Cichonski said Hero was lying calmly at his feet
> >>> in the waiting room
> >>> > and Cichonski s wife was waiting to be treated in the
> >>> examination room
> >>> > when the doctor approached him, saying that pets weren t
> >>> allowed in the
> >>> > office and telling him that he had to wait outside.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > I told her that it s not a pet, it s a guide dog,
> >>> but she still said
> >>> > I couldn t have him in there, Cichonski told the newspaper.
> >>> How many
> >>> > pets do you know that can be declared on your federal income
> >>> tax forms?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Cichonski, who said he sees only a little light
> >>> and shadows, said he
> >>> > then stepped outside the office because he didn t want to
> >>> cause a
> >>> > scene, but not before informing the staff that he was calling
> >>> the
> >>> > police to file a complaint.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > I could have just sat in that chair until the
> >>> police arrived, he added.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > He said his wife was told she wouldn t be treated
> >>> while the dog was
> >>> > in the office. So she left, too.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Cpl. Michael Wojnar of the Lower Southampton
> >>> Police Department
> >>> > arrived and went inside to speak with Punjabi, Cichonski said.
> >>> He said
> >>> > the officer was friendly and helpful and told him that a
> >>> report would be filed.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > On Wednesday, Wojnar said that a complaint had
> >>> indeed been filed. He
> >>> > added that if the newspaper wants to see the report, a right-
> >>> to-know
> >>> > request must be completed because the matter is civil, not criminal.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Punjabi told the newspaper that the dog had
> >>> occupied a large portion
> >>> > of the floor space in the small waiting room. The room holds
> >>> just seven
> >>> > chairs for patients, she said.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > While no other patients were there at the time,
> >>> she said that two
> >>> > walked into the waiting room just as the situation with
> >>> Cichonski was
> >>> > unfolding.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Punjabi said that a Bensalem woman who arrived
> >>> later that morning to
> >>> > accompany her 90-year-old mother for an appointment heard the
> >>> story and
> >>> > agreed with the doctor s decision. Punjabi said she asked that
> >>> woman to
> >>> > put her feelings in writing and provided the newspaper with a
> >>> copy of
> >>> > the letter Tuesday.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > The woman, who asked that her name not be
> >>> published, said that while
> >>> > she loves dogs and respects all disabled people, she would not
> >>> have
> >>> > felt comfortable having the dog in the room with her mother.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > My mother has liquid bones and is very frail,
> >>> she added. I would
> >>> > have been afraid the dog might have bumped into her, causing
> >>> even more
> >>> > injuries.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Punjabi, who said she is afraid of dogs, added
> >>> that her request was polite.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > We simply asked him to step outside, she said.
> >>> I have my rights
> >>> > and my phobias, too.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Iaculla said that Cichonski handled things
> >>> correctly by staying calm.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Unfortunately, there s not much you can do in a
> >>> situation like
> >>> > that, he added. I d recommend contacting an organization
> >>> (like the
> >>> > Disability Rights Network). Hopefully, the agency can contact
> >>> the
> >>> > doctor s office and try to get a dialogue going to explain the
> >>> laws and
> >>> > how to handle a similar matter in the future.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Cichonski said Wednesday that he s exploring his
> >>> options.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > I m not trying to cause a fuss, he added. I
> >>> just want to let
> >>> > people know that things like this are happening and I d like
> >>> to prevent
> >>> > them from happening to other people with disabilities.
> >>>
> >>> > _______________________________________________
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> >>> >
> >>> >
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> >> %4
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