[nagdu] Fair Housing

William Burley william.burley3 at gmail.com
Sat Dec 10 03:36:14 UTC 2011


Paw Power,

Please forgive me upfront for not knowing your name and I'm not sure whether
the response imeediately below is directly to you or someone else in the
trail.  It is no sign of disrespect.

I have to take issue with your description of what I said in my prior
e-mails.  I did not imply or directly say that owner trained dogs are less
legitimate than those trained at the schools.  I also did not say that it is
a requirement to provide documentation, I specifically said that a
requirement of medical documentation is not a requirement.

My argument was that sometimes we can choose our battles more wisely.  It
turns out that the person's complex did not accept the ID stating that the
dog was a service animal.  My response was not for them to go and get
medical documentation or anything other than showing the ID if they had such
a concern.  I chose to give my complex a copy of the ID to place in my file
and I have not had issues with a pet deposit being applied to me or anything
else.

It is possible to choose wisely the battle we fight and to educate.  This is
not directed to anyone here but I have witnessed some blind individuals that
become so militant when someone is not aware of the legalities of disability
laws.  Everytime I see this I know the person they're attempting to brow
beat is not listening but rather forming a negative opinion and in the end,
not learning anything.  I have a higher level of patience because I have not
been blind for a long period of time and many disability laws have been
learned since becoming blind...even though I've worked in the legal field
for years.

Again, please don't contribute ideas that I did not express because my whole
argument goes along with the saying you can draw more flies with sugar
rather than vinegar.  That's all I'm saying.  That doesn't take away from
you or anything else and does not constitute a disagreement with you but
rather a slightly different way of looking at the same situation.  Such is
life I guess.

William Burley
William.burley3 at gmail.com 

A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant services!

Follow Burley-Wilson & Associates, L.L.C.

Facebook:  www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson 
Twitter:  www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson 
Blog:  www.burleywilson.wordpress.com 
Skype:  BurleyWilson 

*Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tami Kinney
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 5:38 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fair Housing

Thanks, Rox, for stating the owner-trainer point of view so well! As one 
myself, I do get to spend a certain amount of my precious time patiently 
educating whoever is standing in my way violating my civil rights when 
I'm in a hurry because one or more guide dog users have flashed their ID 
cards from their schools to indicate their dog is certified under the 
ADA... I do find that many of these guide dog users have been told -- or 
had it implied by their schools -- that those ID cards are , in fact, 
required to prove that their guides are certified under the ADA.

So then I get to spend more time educating these guide dog users in the 
hopes that they might be less likely to go around mis-educating the 
public in places where I need to go to get somewhere... So I don't have 
to plan time into my travel schedule to play itinerate attorney at every 
point along the way. Some people -- many of whom really ought to know 
better -- have actually suggested to me that I just print an ID card or 
buy one off the internet... I just say "no" in a flat tone with an 
equally flat look, which they seem not to appreciate. Why wouldn't I 
make life easier for myself by going along with the law breaking? Well, 
when I repeat it back to them that way eventually, they get more huffy 
but can't deny that that is what I would be doing. Ridiculous. Talk 
about low expectations of blindness! Doesn't matter if people break the 
law against you when you can just break the law in return by creating or 
buying a fraudulent document... Crazed. And I won't do it.

What I will do is inform people what the law really is. I've tried 
appeasement a couple of times, so now I don't even consider that 
approach. I tell them the law. I give them copies of the law. And I 
expect them to follow the law.

Then there are those times when you can't manage to get your dog off to 
crowd and other regular work enough, then hop in the truck and go to a 
Christmas party... And nearly end up having to take your badly behaved 
guide out to wait in the truck. Good grief! Coulda killed that poodle of 
mine. We did some work and she managed to remember to be a professional 
despite the number of other guide and various and sundry service dogs 
there. Well, there was one fluffy bouncy small one that seemed to 
confuse her to no end. I think she wanted to play with it but was being 
too vocal, and it kept walking by... So I had to spend quite a while 
working her through that. Sigh. So I have told DD firmly that he is just 
going to have to drop me off at a nearby corner every other day so that 
Mitzi and I can get in an hour or two of real work. It's only about a 
mile to where infrastructure becomes up to date enough to provide us a 
reasonable measure of safety. As in not certain death. Grrr! But that's 
another issue.

Except to note that while my guide dog is legal and I have a right to 
take her, I also know that I have a responsibility to ensure that her 
behavior is not disruptive. In this case I removed her from the crowd 
and did some work with her to settle her down, then tried again. Also, I 
think the little fluffy bouncy thing left or went to another part of the 
building from where we were dining with our friends. Or would have been 
if my poodle weren't in monster mode. Sigh. Doesn't mattter that her 
excuse is me and my inability to get her the regular work she needs to 
keep her professional calm in crowds with lots of dogs and other high 
stimulus stuff. She can't be a disruption. Any more than the 
professionally trained young guide of a staff member, who waited out the 
festivities in her crate in her mom's office. /smile/ That dog an Mitzi 
adore each other and always do play bows whenever they see each other, 
so her mom and I can always say hi when we meet at random because we 
know who it is. /lol/ We're both persnickety enough at heart to be 
embarrassed but realize that everyone watching thinks it's funny and 
cute and that it is in the end harmless. /lol/ Mitzi was doing her 
poodle vocal thing, which is not okay today, at least until we came to 
an agreement that she would pretent she had training and good manners. 
/lol/ As always, I noticed that taking her out of the crowd to be firm 
with her was somewhat marred by the number of people who stopped to 
carry on about how gorgeous and sweet and wonderful she is. /lol/ No! 
She's a monster! She's here because she's being horrible... But when 7 
people are cooing about how wonderful and sweet and good she is... It 
took a bit of extra time to convince her that this was not a playground 
or a fashion show and that I expected better of her and that it is my 
opinion that counts... No, you are *not* a good dog, don't listen to 
him.. her.. them! /lol/ Whaddya do?

Tami





On 12/08/2011 06:29 AM, Pawpower Creations wrote:
> William, while it may be true that owner trainers do not make up the
> majority, there are a large number of us out here, and that number is
> growing all the time.  The fact that I train my own service dog does not
> make  my dog   any less legitimate than one trained by a program.  And,
also
> anyone at all could go out and have a card printed that says that their
dog
> was trained by ABC dogs unlimited or whatever.  I don't understand your
> point that because the majority of dogs are trained by programs that that
> makes it ok for them to require some sort of ID.  If we as blind people
> always took the easy way out just because we wanted to avoid trouble,
where
> would we be now?  It is important for us to stand up for our rights, not
> just for our own sake, but for all the other blind people out there
whether
> they are a guide dog user or not.
> JMHO
>
> Woofs and wags from the pawpower pack,
>
> Queen Bristol, Mill'E to the max, Rudy the dude in spirit,  baby girl
Laveau
> and Bayou Baylee.
>
>
>
> Pawpower Creations,
>
> Bob Blackner/Rox'e Homstad,
>
> 504-312-2609
>
> pawpower at cox.net
>
> www.pawpowercreations.com
>
>
>
> And of course you won't want to miss the newest member of the pawpower
> packk,(bayou Baylee's) blog at: www.pawpowercreations.com/wordpress
>
> And learn all about  her aspirations of becoming my guide dog when she
grows
> up.
>
> Masterful, mischievious, and adventurous are just a few of the words that
> could be used to describe this informational and entertaining blog.
>
> See you there.
>
>
>
>
>
> I asked for strength that I might rear her perfectly;
> I was given weakness that I might feed her more treats.
>
> I asked for good health that I might rest easy;
> I was given a "special needs" dog that I might know nurturing.
>
> I asked for an obedient dog that I might feel proud;
> I was given stubbornness that I might feel humble.
>
> I asked for compliance that I might feel masterful;
> I was given a clown that I might laugh.
>
> I asked for a companion that I might not feel lonely;
> I was given a best friend that I would feel loved.
>
> I got nothing I asked for,
> But everything that I needed.
>
>
>
> Author unknown
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of William Burley
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 2:24 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fair Housing
>
> Sheila,
>
> I think the vast majority of folks do not train their dogs.  The
regulations
> say that the dog has to have been trained for the purpose it is serving.
> Whether it's legal or not, if you have an ID from the school why fight a
> battle that is not worth fighting?  Don't get me wrong, if the request is
> unreasonable I'm all for fighting against that.  But if you have proof
that
> the dog has been trained or can provide the proof that it is a service
> animal, why cause yourself the headache?  On this specific matter it's a
> case of what is the easiest route.  I am not condoning that medical
> documentation has to be provided...but we have to think as well, how would
> the complex know that it's a service animal?  Remember they had to change
> the definition recently because of the rampant service animal claims that
> were being made.  Again, whether it's legal or not, what harm is it to
give
> them a copy of the ID from the school..Just a common sense thought.
>
> William Burley
> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>
> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant services!
>
> Follow Burley-Wilson&  Associates, L.L.C.
>
> Facebook:  www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
> Twitter:  www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
> Blog:  www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
> Skype:  BurleyWilson
>
> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sheila Leigland
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 9:39 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fair Housing
>
> Hi, william I understand your point it doesn't apply to us but if we had
> owner trained our dogs we wouldn't have documentation from any school yet
is
> isn't illetal to train your own guide.
>
> Sheila Leiglan	d
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pawpower%40cox.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.net
>

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/william.burley3%40gmail.c
om





More information about the NAGDU mailing list