[nagdu] Barking
solsticesinger
solsticesinger at gmail.com
Tue Feb 1 03:49:44 UTC 2011
My first dog was a horrible barker. It didn't matter what I did. I couldn't
break her of this habit. As she got older, the barking got worse. It wasn't
something she did in harness, just around the house.
Caroline is the total opposite. I currently share space with two small,
yappy dogs, and she hasn't barked with or at them. I think I've heard her
bark less than ten times in the 5.5 years I've had her. I asked GDF for a
quiet dog, and I definitely got one.
Shannon and the very quiet Caroline
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Barking
> My dog barks some because our pound pup barks at everything, but he is
> somewhat discriminating about it, and he never barks in hotel rooms. I
> think he would if I was in any danger though.
>
> On Jan 31, 2011, at 8:47 PM, Marion Gwizdala wrote:
>
>> Pete,
>> Oh, don't get me wrong, Sarge can certainly fill the neighborhood with
>> his barks....and they sound as big as he is! He just doesn't bark out of
>> anxiety when left alone but I am sure he barks when people get his dander
>> up! This is another myth of the training programs....that guide dogs
>> shouldn't bark! I want people to know there is a huge dog in the house
>> and I intentionally do obedience in the morning and afternoon when the
>> hoodlums are walking home from school!
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Donahue"
>> <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:35 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Count Johnny In
>>
>>
>>> Hello Marion and everyone,
>>>
>>> Speaking of quiet dogs Johnny only barks on very rare occasions.
>>> Believe it or not since we moved last August we have yet to hear him
>>> bark in
>>> our new place. A joke around here is that when we moved we left a few
>>> things
>>> behind including Johnny's barker. I told Mary that if we visit our old
>>> apartment we'll need to look for it so he'll bark for us in the
>>> future.---But seriously he's just a very quiet boy and his barker is
>>> present
>>> and accounted for. People here hardly notice him and some don't even
>>> know
>>> when he's around he's that quiet.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>> -- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 7:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>> I believe there is a little mythology that some training programs
>>> assert
>>> as fact in an effort to manipulate consumers. One such piece of
>>> mythology is
>>> the belief that a guide dog cam "lose its training". In 1990, I was
>>> seriously injured by a fall from a bus. I spent three weeks in the
>>> hospital
>>> followed by four months in a wheelchair. When I was finally able to
>>> walk, I
>>> picked up my dog's harness and we never missed a beat!
>>> Currently, I use my guide dog about 75% of the time. I believe my dog
>>> works just as well as any other guide dog that works 100% of the time.
>>> In
>>> fact, at the risk of sounding arrogant, I believe my dog is better
>>> behaved
>>> when left alone than some other guide dogs since he is more accustom to
>>> it.
>>> Our neighbors tell us our dogs (my wife is a guide dog user, too) do not
>>> bark or whine while we are away. The "use it or lose it" myth is neither
>>> psychologically nor practically founded in fact!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peggy" <pshald at neb.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 3:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>
>>>
>>>> How long have you been a dog user??
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Jordan Gallacher
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 12:06 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> In extreme cases, weather, major illness, places that a dog would be a
>>>> problem or get too stressed, etc, that is all fine, but the majority of
>>>> the
>>>> time, the dog needs to be used or it will lose its training.
>>>> Jordan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Peggy
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:59 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Unless you have raised a family and used a dog ... you cannot judge
>>>> others
>>>> for how they handle situations. My dog isn't getting as much work
>>>> right
>>>> now
>>>>
>>>> as she should because I have an infant at home and it's wintertime in
>>>> Nebraska. I have a backpack to put him in when the weather is nice and
>>>> we
>>>> can go outside but when it's single digets I'm not going to attempt to
>>>> take
>>>> my son out to get the dog some exercise. As for leaving my baby along
>>>> for
>>>> 5
>>>>
>>>> or 10 minutes while I take a walk ... I don't think so. Do you have
>>>> any
>>>> idea what could happen in 5-10 minutes?? What if there's a fire, what
>>>> if
>>>> he
>>>>
>>>> happens to climb out of his crib?? To suggest leaving a child (infant)
>>>> alone for 5-10 minutes while you walk the dog is crazy. Do I take her
>>>> out,
>>>> sure, when we have rides to the store, to different things that come
>>>> up.
>>>> Is
>>>>
>>>> she getting a 2-3 mile walk in everyday like she should be?? No. If
>>>> you
>>>> feel that your not working your dog enough and retire her that's a
>>>> personal
>>>> choice. If I choose to keep mine, although I may not be working her as
>>>> much
>>>>
>>>> as I like to, that's my choice. But unless you have raised changing
>>>> children and working dogs ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: PICKRELL, REBECCA M (TASC)
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:16 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Logestically speaking, what would you have a person do in the
>>>> situation I
>>>> described to you? Have you ever cared for another human being? Do you
>>>> know
>>>> what it takes on both a practical and emotional level? I retired my
>>>> dog,
>>>> but
>>>>
>>>> assumming that there is a middle ground, how would you suggest I meet
>>>> the
>>>> dog's needs and the human family member's needs while making sure that
>>>> I
>>>> stay physically and emotionally healthy?
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Jordan Gallacher
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 12:09 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> I will tell you right now that the dog's needs are just as important as
>>>> human needs.I don't care if you have a sick family member or not. If
>>>> you
>>>> get a dog, you need to take care of it.
>>>> Jordan-----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of PICKRELL, REBECCA M (TASC)
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:02 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Jordan,
>>>>
>>>> First of all, a school with such an attitude can take their dog back. I
>>>> don't need or want a dog that badly.
>>>> Secondly, most people don't intend to only go out once a week with
>>>> their
>>>> dog. I know I didn't. I got to the point with my daughter though that
>>>> this
>>>> is what happened. You can't leave an infant home alone, and they sleep
>>>> and
>>>> eat at times that the rest of the world does not. I found that my
>>>> daughter's
>>>> bedtime was also my time to rest, and when I wasn't doing that, it was
>>>> my
>>>> time to do laundry, hang with my husband, stay in touch with friends,
>>>> play
>>>> on the computer, basically tasks I could do in my house. Getting a baby
>>>> ready to go out requires you pack up half the house. It isn't
>>>> difficult,
>>>> but
>>>> it is time consuming.
>>>> I found that it was easier and easier to just not take my dog because
>>>> getting the dog ready required yet even more planning, not much, but
>>>> enough
>>>> that it did add up.
>>>> Also, add a kid that is sick to the mix and you have even more fun. And
>>>> in
>>>> my case, these were garden variety illnesses, a stomach bug that lasted
>>>> for
>>>> two or three days, an ear infection, and most recently a nasty case of
>>>> RSV.
>>>> I left my house just once to take my daughter to the doctor. I was home
>>>> taking care of her during the day, and when my husband got home, you
>>>> can
>>>> bet
>>>> I wasn't wanting to go out anyplace. I was exausted from making sure my
>>>> daughter breathed properly, from giving her her breathing treatments,
>>>> monitoring her fever, making sure she drank and went potty, and that
>>>> sort
>>>> of
>>>> thing.
>>>> Please be a little kinder in your judgements. Most people are not out
>>>> trying
>>>> to screw the system. And most people have to think of other things
>>>> beyond
>>>> "what's best for the dog". The dog lives in a family and other family
>>>> members have needs that will at times trump the dog's needs.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Jordan Gallacher
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:28 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> The only reason for not getting out with your dog is if you are injured
>>>> or
>>>> if the weather is hazardous to the dog. Well, in the latter, you
>>>> shouldn't
>>>> even be out in it if the weather is that bad. If you get a dog and
>>>> only
>>>> use
>>>> it once a week, that is a waste of time for the school and you and
>>>> eventually the school will find out. Just remember that there are
>>>> cameras
>>>> everywhere these days and it is highly possible that any thing ccan be
>>>> relayed to the school..
>>>> Jordan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:20 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> I think to say that someone should not have a dog if he/she gets out
>>>> with
>>>> it
>>>> once a week, or for whatever reason is extremely subjective and
>>>> judgmental.
>>>> I think, though, if I got a dog and the school found that I was using
>>>> that
>>>> dog as a pet and was rarely getting out with it or a ariety of other
>>>> kinds
>>>> of things, it would be well within their right to not give me the
>>>> opportunity to have another from their school.
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 30, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes,. If you only use the dog once a week, you should not have the
>>>>> dog.
>>>>> .
>>>>> Jordan
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:56 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>>
>>>>> Jordan, you hae some pretty amazing ideas on other topics; yet you
>>>>> want
>>>> your
>>>>> school to have a year's right to remove your dog. First of all, how
>>>>> can
>>>>> it
>>>>> necessarily be proved that the dog isn't being used for the original
>>>>> purpose. Second, what is that. I mean, what kind of flexibility is
>>>>> there
>>>> in
>>>>> that statement. Let's say I get a dog but I only go out once a week.
>>>>> Is
>>>> that
>>>>> mishandling of the dog? In a way, yes, or at least it is poor
>>>>> stewardship
>>>>> because of the cost of training one. Should that dog be removed from
>>>>> me.
>>>>> People hae ideas that we are mistreating our dogs all of the time. Who
>>>>> is
>>>>> going to prove that I am. How are you going to determine if I am a
>>>>> valid
>>>>> user in a year if you haven't determined that by the time I leave. If
>>>>> word
>>>>> filters down that I sold the dog to a dog fighter or did something
>>>>> equally
>>>>> weird, and that word got out, I should never again be allowed to have
>>>>> another, and I guess I think it would even be fair if that was shared
>>>>> with
>>>>> other schools.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> No, the school needs to have a way to make sure that the dog is being
>>>> used
>>>>>> properly and have an easy way to take back the dog if need be. You
>>>>>> can
>>>> go
>>>>>> through the entire training process and get home and never use, mis
>>>>> handle,
>>>>>> etc the dog.
>>>>>> Jordan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Nimer Jaber
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:36 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jordan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find this to be ludicrous. If the school trusted you enough after
>>>>>> their extensive app process to get you there, to train you, to hand
>>>>>> over the dog to you and allow you to leave their campus, surely they
>>>>>> can be comfortable enough to give you ownership? What is the point of
>>>>>> an application if they're not giving you ownership and they're going
>>>>>> to make sure that you take careo f your dog for a year? Shouldn't
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> just do that instead of an application process lasting months,
>>>>>> requiring a home interview, countless references, etc etc? Just to
>>>>>> clarify, I agree with the interview process, I just find that the
>>>>>> schools retaining ownership to be silly. This would save them costs.
>>>>>> This would save them the headache. And as has already been pointed
>>>>>> out, we aren't children. If someone can't handle their dog, there are
>>>>>> channels that can be followed to get that animal removed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30/01/2011, Jordan Gallacher <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Here is how ownership should be. The school should own the dog for
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> than the first year or until the school knows that the user is
>>>>>>> properly
>>>>>>> using the dog.
>>>>>>> Jordan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Steven Johnson
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:04 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users';
>>>>>> 'Blind
>>>>>>> Talk Mailing List'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is an interesting idea. One thing that I don't believe you
>>>>>>> touched
>>>>>> on,
>>>>>>> or may have indirectly, is the issue of ownership which has been an
>>>>>> ongoing
>>>>>>> issue of discussion among the dog guide community and NAGDU for a
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>> long
>>>>>>> time. This might be one way to at least bring this a little closer
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> creating something that addresses this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, an interesting idea. I will be eager to hear what others
>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Peter Donahue
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:48 PM
>>>>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>>>>> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The situation Marion posted about concerning Fidelco's removal of
>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>> from graduates without detailed bonified reasons for doing so along
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> other issues concerning the treatment of students in training and
>>>>> gradutes
>>>>>>> of guide dog programs is leading me to believe that perhaps the best
>>>>>>> way
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> address them is through legislation I'll refer to as a "Guide Dog
>>>>>> Handler's
>>>>>>> Bill of Rights." Such legislation would require guide dog programs
>>>>>>> among
>>>>>>> other things to give valid reasons for the removal of someone's dog
>>>>>>> and
>>>>> an
>>>>>>> appeals procedure to be put in place should a guide dog handler
>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>> he/she
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> has been wrongly accused of mistreatment of the dog. Yes it's true
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> irresponsible guide dog handlers among us just as there are
>>>> irresponsible
>>>>>>> individuals in our society. This is no reason to treat the blind
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> children.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The failure of Fidelco to give the graduate in question valid
>>>>>>> reasons
>>>> for
>>>>>>> the removal of the dog is a situation we should not tolerate and
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> a stop to. Leader Dogs has also behaved in a similar way towards its
>>>>>>> graduates. If memory serves me correctly a Leader Dog Graduate's dog
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> removed from them during a recent national convention. And as I
>>>>>>> recall
>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> was insufficient reasons for the removal of that dog from its
>>>>>>> handler.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights could require all guide dog
>>>>>> programs
>>>>>>> to give their graduates full ownership of their dogs upon successful
>>>>>>> completion of their programs. I emphasize the word "Successful."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another issue the legislation could address is communication
>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> guide dog handlers and puppy raisers. In most cases this isn't an
>>>>>>> issue.
>>>>>>> Sadly there is at least one U.S. guide dog organization that refuzes
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> offer their graduates and puppy raisers the opportunity to
>>>>>>> communicate
>>>>>>> directly with each other. The Seeing Eye only permits communication
>>>>>> between
>>>>>>> the two parties through the school. It removes all contact
>>>>>>> information
>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> correspondence from notes passed between the two parties. Such a
>>>>> custodial
>>>>>>> practice also subjects both parties to censorship of such
>>>>>>> correspondence
>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> the school. Has this organization and others that may have similar
>>>>>> practices
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> forgotten that they're dealing with adults who must learn to manage
>>>> their
>>>>>>> life's affairs including how communication between themselves and
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> dog's puppy raiser will occur if it does at all. This decision
>>>>>>> should
>>>>> rest
>>>>>>> with the parties in question and not the dictates of a guide dog
>>>>>>> program
>>>>>>> that thinks it is doing the right thing when in reallity it is doing
>>>> more
>>>>>>> harm than good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A guide dog handler's Bill of Rights would require guide dog
>>>>>>> programs
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> establish procedures for facilitating direct communication between
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> graduates and puppy raisers and would prohibit the removal of
>>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>> information it may pass between them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A number of Seeing Eye graduates have discussed this matter with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> school only to receive one excuse after another. And oh yes. As was
>>>>>>> told
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Marion by Fidelco concerning the graduate who's dog was wrongly
>>>>>>> removed
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same old fashion voodoo about confidentiality and privacy are touted
>>>>>>> concerning direct communication between puppy handlers and guide dog
>>>>>> school
>>>>>>> graduates. Programs like the Seeing Eye and others with similar
>>>> practices
>>>>>>> would do well to enter the new Milennium on this matter or face the
>>>>>>> possibility of a legislative mandate to do so. Guide dog handlers
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> right to learn about their dog's up-bringing. Who best to provide
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> information than the dog's puppy raiser.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One Seeing Eye Instructor told me that when one adopts a child
>>>>>>> contact
>>>>>>> information for the child's former parents is withheld. The same
>>>>>>> should
>>>>> be
>>>>>>> done in the case of guide dog puppy raisers and SE'S graduates. I
>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>> be pressed to want such information from an adoption agency in the
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>> place. As the child becomes a part of the family and begins to share
>>>>>> his/her
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> background I'd have a way to get the information I need to be a more
>>>>>>> effective parent. A dog is unable to communicate such information to
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> owner. I have had guide dogs from several guide dog schools and had
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> issues with communication between myself and the dog's raiser. I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>> very
>>>>>>> specific requirements any future guide dog program would need to me
>>>>>>> if
>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> to seek training from them. Because all guide dog programs have one
>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>> then desireable practice or another switching schools to address the
>>>>> puppy
>>>>>>> raiser communication issue is not an option. No self-respecting
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> individual should be put in such a predicament. Let's make sure
>>>> graduates
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> all guide dog programs have the opportunity to communicate directly
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> their dog's puppy family if they choose to do so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> These are just two issues a "Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights"
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> address. I'm sure folks on these lists can think of more. It's an
>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>> worth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> considering to help put an end to practices many of us find
>>>>>>> demeaning
>>>> and
>>>>>>> offensive. Thanks for reading.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>>> et
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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