[nagdu] Going out during training

Wed Feb 2 00:36:21 UTC 2011

With all due respect, structured discovery does *not* provide the answer. Guide dog training isn't the same as cane training in several respects, and certainly not like the immersion training that happens at our centers. I know of what I speak, having gone through both. 

First, guide dog training is much more compressed than cane training is. True, in ideal cases, you should already have the basics down when you get your dog, which isn't necessarily so when you enter an orientation center. 

But even more than that, a dog has many, many more variables attached than using a cane has. All of them have to do with the fact that you're dealing with another living being with its own personality. You can't just drop one dog in and expect it to be like working with the dog that you had just retired for instance, and I don't care how good a handler you are. With a cane, you have only to learn to trust your four senses and what you're getting from your cane. With a dog, it's a two way thing. Not only do you have to learn to trust your dog, your dog has to learn to trust you. This doesn't happen quickly, and there's enough to deal with in class without putting extra stress not only on yourself, but on your dog. Also, bear in mind that while you're getting to know your dog, he's still learning about you and your reactions, and how you differ from a trainer, as much as you're learning about him. It isn't fair to the dog to work a couple routes, then work some more, especially when everyone's still in that getting to know you phase. 

Something that they told me at my first class has really stuck with me, and it's something I will never forget. And, I think, in this case, it bears repeating. If your dog could talk, he would say (on matching day, I'm talking about) that he isn't really interested in meeting you or working with you, much less in becoming your lifelong companion. Yeah, your dog really couldn't care less about you, so all of the overtures of friendship and reaching out are on you. That's a reality. With that in mind, you simply an't take "cane" out, plug "dog" in, and expect the same results or the same dynamic. You simply can't. 

If you were learning to work with a robot, the "We should be able to go off by ourselves with our robot" thing would work. With a dog? Not so much. During my home placement, I was asked not to work Leno while walking with Alena. Any walks I did while not being watched by my instructor were on the order of a couple blocks, solo, and in a fairly quiet setting around my neighborhood. We had other work to do, getting to know each other and trust each other. And those are things you can't rush. 

I would humbly suggest that if you're going to say something, give some thought to what you're saying. Structured discovery is a fantastic thing, but it's a tool. It isn't the fix-all answer to every travel problem, and it doesn't begin to cover some of the dynamics involved with training with a new dog. "Lack of belief in the capacity of blind people" doesn't even enter into this discussion. As a thinking and competent adult, I think you can understand why you can't just go off and put too much onto a new dog or, for that matter, just leave your dog when you like before he fully trusts you. Sometimes being an adult means understanding the need for and abiding by rules. And rules aren't always in place just to keep us oppressed. Please let's think about more than just ourselves sometimes? 
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY

On Feb 1, 2011, at 6:44 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:

> Hello again everyone,
> 
>    Again Structured-Discovery provides an answer.
> 
> Peter Donahue
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 4:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going out during training
> 
> 
> In other words, people who are treated like adults should act like adults?
> /grin/
> 
> Just out of curiosity, what about the option of taking your dog with on
> leash if you're not confident of your teamwork yet?
> 
> Or, since the dogs are still in the program's possession, do they not want
> you taking it off at random?  That would make sense, now that I think about
> it.  Sort of...  Depends on the location.  A hop down to the corner store
> would be one thing, but in the case of one of those remote campuses where
> you have to go far to get to anything interesting, it might be different?
> 
> Dunno.  Just wondering.
> 
> Tami Smith-Kinney
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tracy Carcione
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:22 AM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nagdu] Going out during training
> 
> I don't think that going out with a brand-new dog, in an unfamiliar area,
> during class is a good idea, certainly not in the first couple weeks.  It
> takes a while for the dog and person to adjust to each other, and, until
> that happens, the guiding/following may not be all it should be.
> As to going out without the dog, I wonder what people think should happen
> in the following:
> I was rather shocked by an episode Gary related about his class.  People
> were free to go out after the training day, and it sounded like one woman
> was making a habit of taking off, leaving her dog in the room, where it
> started barking its head off, and other people repeatedly had to go and
> deal with the problem.
> If people are free to go out, and their dog causes a problem in their
> absence, I think it would be reasonable to give them a warning, and, if it
> happens again, send them home.  After all, they're in class to learn how
> to handle a dog, and if bar-hopping is more important...out they go!
> 
> It did sound nice in Gary's class, to be able to nip down to the corner
> and have a brewski.  But TSE is too far out in the country for that.  GDB
> too, for that matter.
> Tracy
> 
> 
> 
> 
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