[nagdu] Why German Shepherds was Re: new guide dog.

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Sun Feb 6 17:34:53 UTC 2011 

I love those interesting historical tidbits.  Now I know!

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:55 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Why German Shepherds was Re: new guide dog.

Nicole,

If I'm remembering correctly Fidelco started out breeding German Shepherds 
for other programs to be guide and police dogs.   then they used that same 
breeding program to provide the dogs for their guide dog program when they 
began doing the training themselves.

Julie


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 7:51 PM
Subject: [nagdu] Why German Shepherds was Re: new guide dog.


> As far as I know Fidelco is the only organization that trains only one 
> breed. Does anyone know why this is and why German Shepherds?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 5:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] new guide dog.
>
>
>> Oh!  Now that you mention that, my memory serves the same thing.  D'oh!
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 5:39 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] new guide dog.
>>
>> Tami,
>>
>>    If my memory serves, I seem to recall hearing that Fidelco only trains
>> German Shepherds. Correct me if I am wrong.
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 5:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] new guide dog.
>>
>>
>>> Alex,
>>>
>>> I got my poodle from a breeder in Grants Pass, Oregon.  Mitzi was six
>>> months
>>> old when I first heard of her, nearly 7 mnths when she arrived at my 
>>> home.
>>> /smile/  I was planning at the time for her to be a companion pet first
>>> and
>>> foremost, as I was recovering from PTSD from an assault.  I chose a
>>> smallish
>>> standard poodle -- she's about 50 lbs -- because I also needed to walk a
>>> lot
>>> for physical therapy to recover from the injuries.  And, I was really,
>>> really hoping I would get a good guide dog prospect while I was at it.
>>> My
>>> hopes were fulfilled!  I had always planned -- in a kinda sorta way --  
>>> to
>>> train my own guide dog at some point, just not my first one.  Still, I'm
>>> glad I did, and she has turned out really great -- in a poodly way --
>>> despite my utter cluelessness about what it was I was training her for.
>>> /smile/  I got lots of good suggestions and tips and how tos about guide
>>> dog
>>> use from this list and more about the training parts from the
>>> owner-trainers
>>> I met here.
>>>
>>> Some guide dog programs have gotten good poodle lines going over the 
>>> past
>>> several years, but they're still pretty hard to get apparently, unless 
>>> you
>>> qualify by having allergies or needing a hypoallergenic dog for some
>>> reason.
>>> So we only just got another poodle guide here, so I can finally hear
>>> someone
>>> else say, "Well, he's a poodle, remember," and such.  /lol/
>>>
>>> Do you know what kind of dog you will be getting yet?  What was your 
>>> first
>>> dog?
>>>
>>> For my guide dog harnesses and such, I order from Pawpower Creations.
>>> Since
>>> you will get all of that from Fidelco, I don't have anything else useful
>>> to
>>> offer.  A lot of people know where to get some really cool stuff, 
>>> though,
>>> so
>>> you should be getting plenty of places to look.  /smile/
>>>
>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of alex
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 4:48 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] new guide dog.
>>>
>>> thank you Tami,
>>> may I ask where did you get your poodle from?
>>> On 2011-02-05, at 7:40 PM, Tamara Smith-Kinney wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well said, Marsha!
>>>>
>>>> Alex, congratulations!
>>>>
>>>> It is true, we have been discussing some possibly questionable behavior
>>>> by
>>>> Fidelco towards some consumers.  We also have happy Fidelco graduates,
>>> like
>>>> Hope, some of them repeat graduates and at least who is, if I recall
>>>> correctly, in the process of retiring a current Fidelco dog and 
>>>> returning
>>>> there for a replacement.  We're not here to make your decisions for you
>>>> or
>>>> to go around slamming guide dog programs, but the information that 
>>>> there
>>> are
>>>> questions might be useful to you if you wish to know more.
>>>>
>>>> Don't worry.  If you were headed for certain doom, we would just go 
>>>> ahead
>>>> and tell you. /grin/  We would, of course, respectfully leave the 
>>>> choice
>>> of
>>>> whether to walk off the cliff entirely up to you.  It would at least be
>>>> an
>>>> informed choice! /lol/
>>>>
>>>> As for reading the archives...  It's probably not my place to say this,
>>> but
>>>> it's been pretty hectic on this list lately, and the dust is still
>>> settling
>>>> after some problems caused by a troller -- if that term is even in use
>>>> anymore.  That's somebody who joins a discussion to cause trouble and
>>>> tick
>>>> people off and stuff, then gets kicked out of the group and comes back
>>> under
>>>> a different name, and so on.  The moderators and others in leadership
>>>> have
>>>> gotten this troller permanently out of hair, but recent archives are no
>>>> doubt pretty messy and not representative of us as a group.  /smile/
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, welcome and best wishes.  I am looking to hear more from you as
>>> you
>>>> go.  As for me,  I am still on my first guide, an owner-trained poodle
>>> named
>>>> Mitzi.  She has just turned the corner from 4-1/2 to almost 5, and I am
>>>> enjoying the experience of being an experienced (by my own lights) 
>>>> guide
>>> dog
>>>> handler with a mature, experienced dog.  Relative to this time last 
>>>> year,
>>>> and we just won't talk about the year before that...  Or the year 
>>>> before
>>>> that ...  /lol/  We have had a fun adventure together, but I am glad to
>>>> be
>>>> able to just sit back and enjoy the ride for awhile.  /smile/
>>>> Owner-trainer, if that is a new term to you, means that I trained the 
>>>> dog
>>> I
>>>> own.  Some people use the term self-trained dog instead of 
>>>> owner-trained
>>>> dog...  But not if they've actually done it.  /grin/  As we
>>>> owner-trainers
>>>> like to remind people, the dogs don't train themselves!  /grin/
>>>>
>>>> Who retains legal ownership of the guide dog upon graduation at this 
>>>> time
>>>> varies from program to program.  It is true that at this time Fidelco
>>>> does
>>>> retain legal ownership of the guide after you graduation from their
>>> training
>>>> and return home.  I apologize that I can't remember specifics.  Some
>>>> programs retain legal ownership for a specific period of time, some for
>>> the
>>>> life of the dog (could be wrong there, but I think there is or has been
>>>> one), others something in between.  Only two programs currently grant
>>> legal
>>>> ownership of the dog upon graduation from the program.
>>>>
>>>> Since I trained my own dog, I suppose I don't need to clarify my
>>> preference
>>>> on that score.  /smile/  Others feel differently and make their choices
>>>> based on other factors.
>>>>
>>>> Changes in the overall system are another matter we all discuss, 
>>>> debate,
>>>> argue, discuss...  /smile/  We're an opinionated lot here, but we do 
>>>> our
>>>> best to respect others, except for when somebody gets excited about
>>>> something and slips up there.  /smile/
>>>>
>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Marsha Drenth
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 12:05 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] new guide dog.
>>>>
>>>> Alex,
>>>>
>>>> If you feel as a person who is about to get a guide from a program, and
>>> you
>>>> have done all your homework, or in other words, you have made an 
>>>> informed
>>>> choice. And that is what is best for you then, that is what you need to
>>> do.
>>>> Yes there have been issues with Fidelco as of recently. But what is 
>>>> true
>>> for
>>>> the other people have issues with, may not be the same for you. Just 
>>>> like
>>>> some those on this list do not like GDB or TSE or Southeastern, it is
>>>> your
>>>> choice. No one on this list can not say that you should not get a dog
>>>> from
>>>> any program, but the ONLY point I will agree with Peter on is, that you
>>>> should read the archives of the list. So you know what the issues of
>>> Fidelco
>>>> have been. Again this is informed choice. But if you have already seen
>>>> the
>>>> list messages concerning Fidelco, and know what your getting into, and
>>> that
>>>> is what you want, and what you think is right to do, then go for it. 
>>>> This
>>> is
>>>> the same for those who do not like GDB, TSE or whatever school. We all
>>> have
>>>> our opinions, and others should respect that.
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>> Co-Moderator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of alex
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 1:43 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] new guide dog.
>>>>
>>>> Peter are you saying that I should not get a guide dog from Fidelco?
>>>> On 2011-02-05, at 1:01 PM, Peter Donahue wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>   You might also wish to read archives of this list concerning 
>>>>> Fidelco's
>>>>> ownership policy before following through with your plans to get a dog
>>>> from
>>>>> them. One way to stop the kind of behavior we've seen from our guide 
>>>>> dog
>>>>> programs is if people stopped seeking their services and use programs
>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> treat the blind in a more respectable fashion. Please consider this as

>>>>> a
>>>>> general comment not an attack against anyone. Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:19 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] new guide dog.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What type of supplies are you looking for? Fidelco provides all the
>>>>> equipment needed-- harness, leash, brush, comb,  stationing mat,
>>>> sterilized
>>>>> bone,  etc.
>>>>> Hope and Beignet from Fidelcos
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "alex" <AAAtlantic at aol.com>
>>>>> To: <NAGDU at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2011 11:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] new guide dog.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> hello all,
>>>>>> I am going to get my second guide dog but this time from fidelco
>>>> sometimes
>>>>>> in march.  I am looking for websites that sales guide dog supplies.
>>>>>> thank you all
>>>>>> Alexander Atlantic
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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