[nagdu] Going out during training

Fri Feb 11 18:04:56 UTC 2011

Regarding those states that allow unlicensed drivers to freely move  about
the roads. I am sure they are the very same which feel gays and lesbians
cannot fight in the armed forces to defend our country, the same ones which
think our president is a Muslim and not a Christian, not that his being a
Muslim would be a problem at all, and they are probably the same states that
oppose taxing the mega wealthy. One or two states holding on to these truths
mean little in the bigger picture as evidenced by the fact gays can openly
fight in our military, that the president is a Christian and that we're
moving toward equal taxation for the mega rich hopefully in the next
election. I know all these points have no bearing on the topic at hand, and
the same holds true for what you offered in your post..

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 12:42 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going out during training

Hello Albert and everyone,

    Check your state's licensing code carefully before using this excuse. 
Some states have licensing criteria under witch an unlicensed driver can 
drive unaccompanied prior to receiving full licensure.

    And to those who commented about military personnel not being allowed to

leave their base-post unaccompanied be careful of this one too. San Antonio 
is a military town. Not every soldier lives on post or base. I know because 
we have military folks living in this apartment complex. We also had 
military personnel living in our previous residence. In fact Mary got a ride

home from someone who was stationed at Fort Sam Houston but chose not to 
live on post. Perhaps these folks found living in such an environment too 
restrictive and were given the opportunity not to live there provided they 
were on post-base when required to be there.

    And one more  thing about drivers licenses. Let's not forget that two 
weeks ago a blind person got behind the steering wheal of a car and drove it

independently all be it in a controlled environment. I fear we'll see 
unlicensed blind persons driving on the open road before we see new guide 
dog handlers being encouraged to use their dogs for unaccompanied travel 
prior to completing training. And the guide dog movement has been around 
longer than blind drivers. And don't ignore the fact that this concern comes

from someone that successfully used a new dog prior to completing training 
on two different occasions once with a first dog. All this stuff about new 
teams being a liability is rooted in the same old horsepuckey concerning the

abilities of the blind especially when list posts trauding out this garbage 
appear without attached, or embedded research data or URLS to Web sites 
supporting such a claim. Is this NAGDU or GDUI. If it's GDUI I'm on the 
wrong guide dog list.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going out during training

Julie,

Now you see there is a sensible, well thought out response to one which is
not rooted in complete reason. If one were new to a school, or to guide dogs
at all, what school would accept the liability of letting a new team out
into the world without first letting them get acquainted? Do we let new
drivers, once they pass their written test, drive untrained and ill informed
about the ins and outs of navigating the machineery  they are wanting to
harness? The answer is no. if however, the squeaky wheel in the group who
constantly drones on about this topic wants what they want, then they need
to investigate those schools which do home training. the seasoned handler,
which I should suspect would be those of you who have had at least two or
perhaps three dogs, would be in a better position to control this all
important issue. You would be able to independently travel anywhere and
everywhere your heart desires as a newly matched team. However, part of the
whole school experience is about bonding with the dog, bonding with other
handlers and developing partnerships to carry you ever forward into the
future in a safe and supportive manner. If that is not for you, then go
elsewhere and screw the studies, be and individual who stands by your
convictions and find that place in the sun where you get what you want. That
is if you can find it. I for one get a lot of pleasure and growth in the
newness, or at least I did, in the school experience. But for the lone wolf
who likes to isolate themselves, more power to you.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 8:04 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Going out during training

Peter,

There isn't any research and not likely to be any.  When you do social
research of this variety there needs to be a general understanding of
safety.  There are boards that review research proposals to ensure that the
study won't intentionally harm people.  Sure we could argue until the cows
come home that no one would get hurt going out on their own 2 hours after
receiving their first dog, with no idea of what commands to use, how to
cross a street or place the dog out of the way under a table.  Somehow I
don't think anyone but you would buy it though.

Perhaps a more likely approach would be to endorse independent travel before

graduating.  It could be done in the last couple of days during training so
all the concepts have been introduced and practiced.  The student could plan

the excursion with the instructor to ensure that it is appropriate for that
individual team's ability level.

I think you'd get a lot more support for this approach to independent travel

while at the guide dog school.

JMHO
Julie

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