[nagdu] Cost of owning a guide dog

Doug Parisian eggmann at mts.net
Tue Feb 22 04:15:47 UTC 2011 

Buddy, didn't expect any negatives coming your way.  Indeed, I've lived in 
Winnipeg Manitoba Canada for virtually all of my adult life.
Mostly, I hate snow and cold, but tons of wind-driven snow are the 
exceptions.  The problem is, with cold at least 6 months of the year, with 
occasional slushy moments, means much of what fell in mid October could well 
be around in April.

Me, I'm a tree hugger, love the smell of fresh flowers qand greenery, and 
you just can't beat that hot Prairy sky in the Doug days of summer.

Dog: Sunny days are coming!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cost of owning a guide dog


> Hi Doug,
>
> No hate mail from me, my friend. I find we are in agreement an awful lot. 
> You see, I'm a Southern transplant, so, while I like the seasons and don't 
> think I'll be going south again (it's too hot!), you are likely much more 
> acclimatized to the snow than I am, or, I expect, ever will be. Still, 
> while I'm comfortable with a cane, and had really very few issues going 
> back to it during the 10 months between Chet and Leno, I absolutely prefer 
> working a guide. And my current one is just fantastic. Couldn't be happier 
> with him.
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Feb 21, 2011, at 9:47 PM, Doug Parisian wrote:
>
>> Buddy, good boy!  But there is even more to having a dog VS cane.  I 
>> caned for about 11 years and my only regret in getting my first dog was 
>> that I waited until age 27, instead of doing so at 17.  What a difference 
>> this would have made in my university.
>>
>> Way back in 1977, I was working in a fully sighted environment with our 
>> Canadian employment service, operated by the feds.  One of my duties was 
>> to visit a select list of employers either to establish on-the-job train 
>> or to market specific clients.  This often involved walking around 
>> industrial parks where there were no sidewalks, crossing vast parking 
>> lots, negotiating my way through noisy forklift infested warehouses, 
>> often panicking employers to the point of making communications relating 
>> to my original intent very difficult indeed.
>>
>> I was not sold on my first dog since my mobility and orientation 
>> abilities with the then 40 inch cane were very much more developed than 
>> my friend who had been working with a dog for 10 years.  Even so, I could 
>> never move as fast with my white cane as I would have liked, and 
>> challenging areas (and there were many with the work I did) only added 
>> immensely to my fatigue on top of having to cope with a vast amount of 
>> government forms, many filled out in hand-printing or worse, handwriting.
>>
>> All of my dogs, starting from my first, gave me the freedom to move as 
>> rapidly as I could ever hope without my having to think of issues such as 
>> "sidewalk furniture" etc.  Further, I now very rarely walk sighted guide, 
>> seeing as how my dogs are much better at that job.  This leaves a hand 
>> free to carry whatever I can't put in a backpack.
>>
>> We love walking in fresh deep snow and have often done so in blizzard 
>> conditions, just for the fun of it.
>>
>> Do I think a Dog Guide is a much better, safer, more dignified method of 
>> mobility than a cane?  Absolutely with no apologies to any one.  I've 
>> been to dozens of conferences with a mix of Dog Guide teams and "whack 'n 
>> tappers" and found that the dog teams negotiated strange hotel lobbies, 
>> streets, and wide open spaces, much more rapidly and efficiently.
>>
>> Doug: Waiting for the hate mail--AGAIN!!!
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 7:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cost of owning a guide dog
>>
>>
>>> Hi Jessica (and also Phil),
>>>
>>> I think Jessica's statement that "a dog can find things, where a cane 
>>> cannot" needs quite a bit of clarification, because it isn't exactly 
>>> true or clear cut.
>>>
>>> A cane can find things in your immediate environment. If you are, for 
>>> instance, looking for the fourth sidewalk on the left, or the third door 
>>> on the right, a cane will do this much more easily than a dog will. 
>>> Whereas with a cane, you can shoreline and count (because the door or 
>>> sidewalk or pole is right within the distance between your body and the 
>>> end of your cane), you would need to make suggestive commands to your 
>>> dog in order to find each door or sidewalk or pole. Sometimes, this 
>>> works, and sometimes it doesn't. Depends a lot on your dog really. I 
>>> find that sometimes, they try to think a few steps ahead of you. 
>>> Sometimes this is a good thing. Anyway, the advantage comes once you 
>>> have been to a particular destination before. Within a couple of times 
>>> going somewhere, your dog will indicate that destination to you. How 
>>> this is indicated, again, varies from dog to dog, and it then becomes a 
>>> matter of learning your particular dog's signals. This is, again, a 
>>> blessing and a curse. Many are the arguments I've had with my dog about 
>>> where we were going, when he thought I wanted to go one place and I 
>>> wanted to go to another. ("But we always go here! You want to go here 
>>> this time." "No I don't." And so on.)
>>>
>>> Working across wide open areas like parking lots is much easier with a 
>>> dog, too. They will generally target a door, for instance, and head for 
>>> it across a parking lot. Doing this with a cane is, clearly, more 
>>> difficult. Walking through snow with a cane is also harder than doing so 
>>> with a dog, although I wouldn't really call either one pleasant.
>>>
>>> You certainly will have to get used to cluing into different kinds of 
>>> landmarks using a dog than you used with a cane. Just a fact, and a 
>>> thing you'll get used to.
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 21, 2011, at 7:40 PM, Philip S wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jessica, Julie and all,
>>>> Could you elaborate on what you meant by "a dog can find things
>>>> whereas a cane cannot"?  What kinds of things are you referring to?
>>>> Certainly it depends on a dog's health, but around what age do guide
>>>> dogs usually retire?
>>>> Thanks a lot for your help!
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/21/11, Jessica Pitzer <rolosgirl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I used a cane for about 17 years or so. A dog can find things where as
>>>>> a cane can not, but a cane can give you more tacticle info. I prefer
>>>>> the dog obviously.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/21/11, Julie J <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Phil,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have my current guide and my retired guide here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some people do get pet insurance, but I'd caution reading the fine 
>>>>>> print
>>>>>> before signing on the dotted line.  I've heard a lot of people say 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> aren't worth the cost, that it's better to just put the money in a 
>>>>>> savings
>>>>>> account.   I haven't spend that much time looking into insurance, so 
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> no idea which plans are better than others.  If this is a concern, 
>>>>>> I'd ask
>>>>>> the program you are considering what sort of support they offer in 
>>>>>> cases
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> unforeseen medical expenses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Philip S" <philso1003 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:44 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Cost of owning a guide dog
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Julie,
>>>>>>> Thanks for your detailed answers.  You mentioned "both of your 
>>>>>>> dogs".
>>>>>>> Do you have 2 guide dogs?  Yes, vet visits and unforeseen medical
>>>>>>> expenses can be costly.  Is it a common practice for people to buy
>>>>>>> health insurance for their guide dogs such as from PetPlan?
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/20/11, Julie J <julielj at neb.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Phil,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My best answer is...it depends.  It's hard to pin down an exact 
>>>>>>>> amount I
>>>>>>>> spend monthly or yearly because there are so many variables. Here's 
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>>> guess at your individual questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> About how much can I expect the cost to increase as a dog gets 
>>>>>>>>> bigger >
>>>>>>>>> (eat more?) and older (more vet visits?)
>>>>>>>> *> The cost you incur on food won't really change over the lifetime 
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> dog since all the programs will be matching you with an adult dog.
>>>>>>>> Whether
>>>>>>>> or not you spend a lot on vet visits totally depends on the 
>>>>>>>> individual
>>>>>>>> health of the dog.  I wish I knew of some way to predict health and
>>>>>>>> longevity, but I don't.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In particular, how much do you spend each month (or each year on 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> following)?
>>>>>>>>> Food  *approx. $600 per year I have a very large dog who cannot
>>>>>>>>> tolerate
>>>>>>>>> corn, wheat or soy*
>>>>>>>>> Treats *I only buy treats every now and then, maybe $20 per year.
>>>>>>>>> Typically I use regular dog food or find something appropriate 
>>>>>>>>> from the
>>>>>>>>> refridgerator.*
>>>>>>>>> Snacks *I don't really do snacks*
>>>>>>>>> regular Vet visit*approx. $30 per year, but I live in a very rural
>>>>>>>>> environment.  My vet is super cheap compared to what you'd 
>>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> large city.*
>>>>>>>>> Major medical expense*Absolutely no way to know in advance.*
>>>>>>>>> supplies*I've had dogs for all of my life.  Many of the supplies I 
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> like brushes etc.  I've had for ages.  None of them were very
>>>>>>>>> expensive,
>>>>>>>>> except for the Furminator.  You could buy all the brushes and 
>>>>>>>>> combs
>>>>>>>>> you'd
>>>>>>>>> need for under $20.  I think the dishes I have cost something like 
>>>>>>>>> $7
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> so.*
>>>>>>>>> Kennel*Again I have a very large dog, 27 inches tall.  There 
>>>>>>>>> aren't a
>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>> to choose from when you get to that size.  I have a VariKennel 
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> about $100.*
>>>>>>>>> license*Spayed or neutered dogs are $5 here, which I do pay.
>>>>>>>>> Technically
>>>>>>>>> speaking a fee cannot be charged to you because of your choice of
>>>>>>>>> mobility
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> tool.  Your experience in getting local authorities to understand 
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> vary.*
>>>>>>>>> Toy*my dogs are spoiled in the toy department.  They have an 
>>>>>>>>> entire bin
>>>>>>>>> full of them.  I try to pick super durable toys that will last a 
>>>>>>>>> long
>>>>>>>>> while though.  I'd say the current toy selection probably cost me
>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>> $100, but they weren't purchased all at once and they obviously 
>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> all of those toys.  I like King Wholesale for toys.  They are 
>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>> half
>>>>>>>>> the price of Petsmart or Petco.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you visit any dog/pet website?
>>>>>>>> *Yes, many.  I like King Wholesale for toys, supplies, grooming 
>>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>>> etc.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you get your dog food/supplies
>>>>>>>>> online or at a store?
>>>>>>>>> *Generally online.  Again I live in a very, very small town. 
>>>>>>>>> There is
>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>> pet store here.  I feed Flint River Ranch dog food to both of my 
>>>>>>>>> dogs.
>>>>>>>>> it's only available on line and delivered to your front door.*
>>>>>>>>> Thanks very much for your help!
>>>>>>>> *No problem.  I did want to mention that most/all of the guide dog
>>>>>>>> programs
>>>>>>>> will provide you with a couple of toys, a mat or crate, leash, 
>>>>>>>> collar,
>>>>>>>> harness, food bowl, brush and probably other stuff I'm forgetting 
>>>>>>>> at the
>>>>>>>> moment.  the two major expenses are food and vet bills.  Some of 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> programs will provide a yearly stipend or  assistance with 
>>>>>>>> unforseen vet
>>>>>>>> costs.  If you live close enough to the school I think most of them 
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> allow you to take your dog there for vet visits free of charge.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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