[nagdu] Muslim cab drivers: not a slam on their beliefs

Tamara Smith-Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Tue Feb 22 18:13:03 UTC 2011


Lisa,

Oh!  Yes, I was poking fun at myself.  I do that quite often.  /smile/  I
question some of the hard and fast rules of guide dog use that I have been
lectured on as an owner-trainer, some of which I have since discovered don't
actually exist.  At the same time, I used the program model in devising my
own training plan -- although I use very different methods to achieve the
same ends -- and trained in super-strict etiquette, learning all I could
from the sternest adherents.  Emily Post would have felt like a lout
compared to the standards I set for myself and my poodle!  /smile/

All the while, my inner rebellious teenager whined like you would not
believe about having to have her style cramped by all those stupid rules and
who cares and...  You know how teenagers can be!  /lol/  My curly rebellious
teenager dog was pretty much in tune with that kid.  A great time was had by
all.  /lol/

To be honest, some of the household rules I never followed because I adapted
to my dog and my own lifestyle, since I was training her for me.  Had I had
a different dog, I would have made different decisions about things like
feeding schedules and the like.  What works for a typical lab when it comes
to feeding does not work at all with a Mitzi poodle, for instance.
Especially when she was a pup!  I had to bar a living skills instructor from
my home for actively interfering with my dog over that one and a couple of
others.  She insisted that if I didn't follow her rules to the letter, she
wouldn't help me anymore.  I agreed that this was an acceptable solution.
/smile/  I'm a nice person, so I did not add that she had yet to teach me
anything I hadn't already figured out for myself and that her insistence
that I was not blind but had really great vision which I used to perform
household tasks or find my way around a then unfamiliar city, etc., etc.,
was getting just a little old by then.  Sigh.  Since the rules she fully
expected me to follow to the letter without wavering would have negatively
impacted the physical and mental health of my pup throughout the course of
her lifetime, I feel quite comfortable in my assessment that the rules were,
de facto, stupid.  /grin/

As for proper etiquette in public, we don't have to worry about all the
little stuff anymore, because we've both just made it habit.  Every now and
then some know it all will insist that I need to correct her or send her in
for more training because she looks around or some other such nonsense that
everyone knows guide dogs *never* do that she's doing or *always* do that
she's not. 

One of the least fun aspects of choosing to owner-train is that you quickly
learn just how helpful people can be and how many people know everything
there is to know about guide dogs and what they do and how they do it and...
They also know that blind people can't train their own guide dogs, so they
are willing and eager to perform their civic duty by leaping in to save you
from yourself and make sure you do things right!  Having an uncommon breed
in a town occupied by a lab program (GDB) means you keep getting the news
about how your dog does not measure up to those labs, mostly because she
does not look, act, or work like the labs they see in training all over
town.  Apparently, GDB labs do not look around, not ever.

So, more rules for me and my dog to follow.  Nearly all of them are
undeniably stupid.  /lol/

The actual rules of the actual guide dog programs do not always make sense
to me, but since it can be safely assumed that they must know something or
other about what they're doing, I figure that they must make sense somehow
and do not categorically declare them stupid.  /smile/

My actual response if someone gets too pushy about it is to point out that
my dog guides me safely and comfortably and that she is not disruptive to
others, etc., etc.  That explanation doesn't get me very far, but I keep
trying.  /smile/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Lisa Irving
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 12:51 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Muslim cab drivers: not a slam on their beliefs

I hope the tale end of your message was jesting. If you're comfortable with 
what works for you, to heck with those who get their nose bent out of joint.

Kudos, lady!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Muslim cab drivers: not a slam on their beliefs


> Lisa,
>
> It does indeed.  As a protestant, I have a hard time not seeing the devout
> Catholic practice of counting on a rosary as anything but obsessive
> compulsive.  It has meaning to those who do that, but not to me, so I 
> don't
> truly get it and it seems odd to me.  So, perhaps, with the hand washing.
> Or the kneeling to pray at certain times; I don't truly grasp the prayer
> hours for some devout Catholics, either.
>
> Still, the actions have meaning for those practicing them, so I can't 
> judge
> those things by my lack of true understanding of the meaning.
>
> To go further into the flipside point of view, some people think I'm
> neurotic and obsessive about certain things involving my guide dog.  This
> was more true when she was an impressionable young thing, because I chose 
> to
> be very strict in training proper etiquette and following many of the
> program rules for guide dog users.  Now I've learned where I can relax 
> with
> her and can say "Pshaw!" to all those stupid rules.  /smile/  Those stupid
> rules being the ones that we don't need to practice to the letter in order
> to be a smoothly functioning guide dog team.
>
> The rules we *do* need to follow at home, at play and at work, I am still
> quite cheerfully neurotic, obsessive and rigid about.  Getting into the
> habit of fudging on those will get us hurt or killed, so I am devoted to
> keeping those rules!  If you want to tell me how screwed up I am to be so
> uptight and unbalanced about some little thing that doesn't matter, feel
> free to tell me all about it!  I'll ignore you and stand between you and 
> my
> dog if you're trying to break the rule for me.  But you can tell me anyway
> if it makes you happy.  /grin/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lisa Irving
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 4:58 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Muslim cab drivers: not a slam on their beliefs
>
> Actually, if I'm not mistaken, it's five  times on each hand for a set
> number of times per day. In our culture, we see this behavior as odd and
> compulsive. Funny how cultures perceive one another.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Muslim cab drivers: not a slam on their beliefs
>
>
>> Is it just me, or does the washing unclean objects/body parts/etc. seven
>> times sound a little obsessive compulsive?
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 18, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Lisa Irving wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Dan,
>>>
>>> It can be exasperating when some one perceives their religious
>>> preferences supersede the law.
>>>
>>> I've discussed this matter; guide dogs riding in cabs driven by Muslim
>>> cab drivers. A Muslim friend of mine explained to me their hand washing
>>> rituals and why they frequently engage in this ritual. I get it. She 
>>> also
>
>>> told me that the drivers who are insistant  that they won't transport a
>>> dog of any type, tends to be devout about his beliefs. Nevertheless, she
>>> agrees with me that such beliefs should not over ride laws. Together, we
>>> came up with a viable solution. I haven't been in a position where I 
>>> have
>
>>> tried this.
>>>
>>> I'm all right carrying handy wipes and offering them to the devout
>>> Muslim. It's a gamble. The devout Muslim faith isn't going to disappear
>>> anytime soon, nor are my rights as a person with a disability. So,
>>> finding common ground and the middle plane seems to make logical
>>> sense. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Weiner"
>>> <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 3:16 PM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] And that reminds me of the cab driver issue
>>>
>>>
>>>> And on the subject of cab drivers, it is patently ridiculous that
>>>> someone's
>>>> supposed religious concerns should even be an issue for us. I'm
>>>> referring to
>>>> the Muslim cab drivers you mentioned.
>>>> It just shows that our rights as blind people mean much less or nothing
>>>> at
>>>> all when compared to some idiot cab driver.
>>>>
>>>> Dan W.
>>>>
>>>>
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