[nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
d m gina
dmgina at samobile.net
Sun Jan 30 21:13:52 UTC 2011
I disagree here,
I'm pleased the school I work with is quite understanding on behalf of winter.
Gee they work in it when they can.
Even they had problems this year.
Original message:
> Yes,. If you only use the dog once a week, you should not have the dog. .
> Jordan
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:56 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
> Jordan, you hae some pretty amazing ideas on other topics; yet you want your
> school to have a year's right to remove your dog. First of all, how can it
> necessarily be proved that the dog isn't being used for the original
> purpose. Second, what is that. I mean, what kind of flexibility is there in
> that statement. Let's say I get a dog but I only go out once a week. Is that
> mishandling of the dog? In a way, yes, or at least it is poor stewardship
> because of the cost of training one. Should that dog be removed from me.
> People hae ideas that we are mistreating our dogs all of the time. Who is
> going to prove that I am. How are you going to determine if I am a valid
> user in a year if you haven't determined that by the time I leave. If word
> filters down that I sold the dog to a dog fighter or did something equally
> weird, and that word got out, I should never again be allowed to have
> another, and I guess I think it would even be fair if that was shared with
> other schools.
> On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:
>> No, the school needs to have a way to make sure that the dog is being used
>> properly and have an easy way to take back the dog if need be. You can go
>> through the entire training process and get home and never use, mis
> handle,
>> etc the dog.
>> Jordan
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Nimer Jaber
>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:36 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>> Jordan,
>> I find this to be ludicrous. If the school trusted you enough after
>> their extensive app process to get you there, to train you, to hand
>> over the dog to you and allow you to leave their campus, surely they
>> can be comfortable enough to give you ownership? What is the point of
>> an application if they're not giving you ownership and they're going
>> to make sure that you take careo f your dog for a year? Shouldn't they
>> just do that instead of an application process lasting months,
>> requiring a home interview, countless references, etc etc? Just to
>> clarify, I agree with the interview process, I just find that the
>> schools retaining ownership to be silly. This would save them costs.
>> This would save them the headache. And as has already been pointed
>> out, we aren't children. If someone can't handle their dog, there are
>> channels that can be followed to get that animal removed.
>> Thanks.
>> On 30/01/2011, Jordan Gallacher <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Here is how ownership should be. The school should own the dog for no
>> more
>>> than the first year or until the school knows that the user is properly
>>> using the dog.
>>> Jordan
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>>> Of Steven Johnson
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:04 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users';
>> 'Blind
>>> Talk Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>> Peter,
>>> This is an interesting idea. One thing that I don't believe you touched
>> on,
>>> or may have indirectly, is the issue of ownership which has been an
>> ongoing
>>> issue of discussion among the dog guide community and NAGDU for a very
>> long
>>> time. This might be one way to at least bring this a little closer to
>>> creating something that addresses this.
>>> Again, an interesting idea. I will be eager to hear what others think.
>>> Steve
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>>> Of Peter Donahue
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:48 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> The situation Marion posted about concerning Fidelco's removal of dogs
>>> from graduates without detailed bonified reasons for doing so along with
>>> other issues concerning the treatment of students in training and
> gradutes
>>> of guide dog programs is leading me to believe that perhaps the best way
>> to
>>> address them is through legislation I'll refer to as a "Guide Dog
>> Handler's
>>> Bill of Rights." Such legislation would require guide dog programs among
>>> other things to give valid reasons for the removal of someone's dog and
> an
>>> appeals procedure to be put in place should a guide dog handler feel
>> he/she
>>> has been wrongly accused of mistreatment of the dog. Yes it's true there
>> are
>>> irresponsible guide dog handlers among us just as there are irresponsible
>>> individuals in our society. This is no reason to treat the blind like
>>> children.
>>> The failure of Fidelco to give the graduate in question valid reasons for
>>> the removal of the dog is a situation we should not tolerate and need to
>> put
>>> a stop to. Leader Dogs has also behaved in a similar way towards its
>>> graduates. If memory serves me correctly a Leader Dog Graduate's dog was
>>> removed from them during a recent national convention. And as I recall
>> there
>>> was insufficient reasons for the removal of that dog from its handler.
>>> A Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights could require all guide dog
>> programs
>>> to give their graduates full ownership of their dogs upon successful
>>> completion of their programs. I emphasize the word "Successful."
>>> Another issue the legislation could address is communication
>> between
>>> guide dog handlers and puppy raisers. In most cases this isn't an issue.
>>> Sadly there is at least one U.S. guide dog organization that refuzes to
>>> offer their graduates and puppy raisers the opportunity to communicate
>>> directly with each other. The Seeing Eye only permits communication
>> between
>>> the two parties through the school. It removes all contact information
>> from
>>> correspondence from notes passed between the two parties. Such a
> custodial
>>> practice also subjects both parties to censorship of such correspondence
>> by
>>> the school. Has this organization and others that may have similar
>> practices
>>> forgotten that they're dealing with adults who must learn to manage their
>>> life's affairs including how communication between themselves and their
>>> dog's puppy raiser will occur if it does at all. This decision should
> rest
>>> with the parties in question and not the dictates of a guide dog program
>>> that thinks it is doing the right thing when in reallity it is doing more
>>> harm than good.
>>> A guide dog handler's Bill of Rights would require guide dog programs
>> to
>>> establish procedures for facilitating direct communication between its
>>> graduates and puppy raisers and would prohibit the removal of contact
>>> information it may pass between them.
>>> A number of Seeing Eye graduates have discussed this matter with the
>>> school only to receive one excuse after another. And oh yes. As was told
>> to
>>> Marion by Fidelco concerning the graduate who's dog was wrongly removed
>> the
>>> same old fashion voodoo about confidentiality and privacy are touted
>>> concerning direct communication between puppy handlers and guide dog
>> school
>>> graduates. Programs like the Seeing Eye and others with similar practices
>>> would do well to enter the new Milennium on this matter or face the
>>> possibility of a legislative mandate to do so. Guide dog handlers have a
>>> right to learn about their dog's up-bringing. Who best to provide that
>>> information than the dog's puppy raiser.
>>> One Seeing Eye Instructor told me that when one adopts a child contact
>>> information for the child's former parents is withheld. The same should
> be
>>> done in the case of guide dog puppy raisers and SE'S graduates. I
> wouldn't
>>> be pressed to want such information from an adoption agency in the first
>>> place. As the child becomes a part of the family and begins to share
>> his/her
>>> background I'd have a way to get the information I need to be a more
>>> effective parent. A dog is unable to communicate such information to its
>>> owner. I have had guide dogs from several guide dog schools and had no
>>> issues with communication between myself and the dog's raiser. I have
> very
>>> specific requirements any future guide dog program would need to me if
> I'm
>>> to seek training from them. Because all guide dog programs have one less
>>> then desireable practice or another switching schools to address the
> puppy
>>> raiser communication issue is not an option. No self-respecting blind
>>> individual should be put in such a predicament. Let's make sure graduates
>> of
>>> all guide dog programs have the opportunity to communicate directly with
>>> their dog's puppy family if they choose to do so.
>>> These are just two issues a "Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights" could
>>> address. I'm sure folks on these lists can think of more. It's an idea
>> worth
>>> considering to help put an end to practices many of us find demeaning and
>>> offensive. Thanks for reading.
>>> Peter Donahue
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>> om
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