[nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

Jordan Gallacher jgallacher1987 at gmail.com
Sun Jan 30 21:32:42 UTC 2011


The only time I won't take my dog is if it is a major thunderstorm, although
there are so many places on campus that are tricky with a cane, that I
debate about what I just said.
Jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of d m gina
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:27 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

Oh send the rain our way, it is snowing.
I just did a bargon with my dog.
If he went out and did his chores he would get a treat.
Trust me he went quickly loll.

Original message:
> We  had an ice storm in Ruston and my dog worked fine even though it
started
> raining ice on the way back from dinner.
> Jordan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of d m gina
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:14 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

> I disagree here,
> I'm pleased the school I work with is quite understanding on behalf of
> winter.
> Gee they work in it when they can.
> Even they had problems this year.

> Original message:
>> Yes,. If you only use the dog once a week, you should not have the dog.
.
>> Jordan

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:56 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

>> Jordan, you hae some pretty amazing ideas on other topics; yet you want
> your
>> school to have a year's right to remove your dog. First of all, how can
it
>> necessarily be proved that the dog isn't being used for the original
>> purpose. Second, what is that. I mean, what kind of flexibility is there
> in
>> that statement. Let's say I get a dog but I only go out once a week. Is
> that
>> mishandling of the dog? In a way, yes, or at least it is poor stewardship
>> because of the cost of training one. Should that dog be removed from me.
>> People hae ideas that we are mistreating our dogs all of the time. Who is
>> going to prove that I am. How are you going to determine if I am a valid
>> user in a year if you haven't determined that by the time I leave. If
word
>> filters down that I sold the dog to a dog fighter or did something
equally
>> weird, and that word got out, I should never again be allowed to have
>> another, and I guess I think it would even be fair if that was shared
with
>> other schools.

>> On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:

>>> No, the school needs to have a way to make sure that the dog is being
> used
>>> properly and have an easy way to take back the dog if need be.  You can
> go
>>> through the entire training process and get home and never use, mis
>> handle,
>>> etc the dog.
>>> Jordan

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>>> Of Nimer Jaber
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:36 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

>>> Jordan,

>>> I find this to be ludicrous. If the school trusted you enough after
>>> their extensive app process to get you there, to train you, to hand
>>> over the dog to you and allow you to leave their campus, surely they
>>> can be comfortable enough to give you ownership? What is the point of
>>> an application if they're not giving you ownership and they're going
>>> to make sure that you take careo f your dog for a year? Shouldn't they
>>> just do that instead of an application process lasting months,
>>> requiring a home interview, countless references, etc etc? Just to
>>> clarify, I agree with the interview process, I just find that the
>>> schools retaining ownership to be silly. This would save them costs.
>>> This would save them the headache. And as has already been pointed
>>> out, we aren't children. If someone can't handle their dog, there are
>>> channels that can be followed to get that animal removed.

>>> Thanks.

>>> On 30/01/2011, Jordan Gallacher <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Here is how ownership should be.  The school should own the dog for no
>>> more
>>>> than the first year or until the school knows that the user is properly
>>>> using the dog.
>>>> Jordan

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>>> Of Steven Johnson
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:04 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users';
>>> 'Blind
>>>> Talk Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

>>>> Peter,

>>>> This is an interesting idea.  One thing that I don't believe you
touched
>>> on,
>>>> or may have indirectly, is the issue of ownership which has been an
>>> ongoing
>>>> issue of discussion among the dog guide community and NAGDU for a very
>>> long
>>>> time.  This might be one way to at least bring this a little closer to
>>>> creating something that addresses this.

>>>> Again, an interesting idea.  I will be eager to hear what others think.

>>>> Steve


>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>>> Of Peter Donahue
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:48 PM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights


>>>> Hello everyone,

>>>>    The situation Marion posted about concerning Fidelco's removal of
> dogs
>>>> from graduates without detailed bonified reasons for doing so along
with
>>>> other issues concerning the treatment of students in training and
>> gradutes
>>>> of guide dog programs is leading me to believe that perhaps the best
way
>>> to
>>>> address them is through legislation I'll refer to as a "Guide Dog
>>> Handler's
>>>> Bill of Rights." Such legislation would require guide dog programs
among
>>>> other things to give valid reasons for the removal of someone's dog and
>> an
>>>> appeals  procedure to be put in place should a guide dog handler feel
>>> he/she

>>>> has been wrongly accused of mistreatment of the dog. Yes it's true
there
>>> are

>>>> irresponsible guide dog handlers among us just as there are
> irresponsible
>>>> individuals in our society. This is no reason to treat the blind like
>>>> children.

>>>> The failure of Fidelco to give the graduate in question valid reasons
> for
>>>> the removal of the dog is a situation we should not tolerate and need
to
>>> put

>>>> a stop to. Leader Dogs has also behaved in a similar way towards its
>>>> graduates. If memory serves me correctly a Leader Dog Graduate's dog
was
>>>> removed from them during a recent national convention. And as I recall
>>> there

>>>> was insufficient reasons for the removal of that dog from its handler.

>>>>    A Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights could require all guide dog
>>> programs
>>>> to give their graduates full ownership of their dogs upon successful
>>>> completion of their programs. I emphasize the word "Successful."

>>>>        Another issue the legislation could address is communication
>>> between

>>>> guide dog handlers and puppy raisers. In most cases this isn't an
issue.
>>>> Sadly there is at least one U.S. guide dog organization that refuzes to
>>>> offer their graduates and puppy raisers the opportunity to communicate
>>>> directly with each other. The Seeing Eye only permits communication
>>> between
>>>> the two parties through the school. It removes all contact information
>>> from
>>>> correspondence from notes passed between the two parties. Such a
>> custodial
>>>> practice also subjects both parties to censorship of such
correspondence
>>> by
>>>> the school. Has this organization and others that may have similar
>>> practices

>>>> forgotten that they're dealing with adults who must learn to manage
> their
>>>> life's affairs including how communication between themselves and their
>>>> dog's puppy raiser will occur if it does at all. This decision should
>> rest
>>>> with the parties in question and not the dictates of a guide dog
program
>>>> that thinks it is doing the right thing when in reallity it is doing
> more
>>>> harm than good.

>>>>    A guide dog handler's Bill of Rights would require guide dog
programs
>>> to

>>>> establish procedures for facilitating direct communication between its
>>>> graduates and puppy raisers and would prohibit the removal of contact
>>>> information it may pass between them.

>>>>    A number of Seeing Eye graduates have discussed this matter with the
>>>> school only to receive one excuse after another. And oh yes. As was
told
>>> to
>>>> Marion by Fidelco concerning the graduate who's dog was wrongly removed
>>> the
>>>> same old fashion voodoo about confidentiality and privacy are touted
>>>> concerning direct communication between puppy handlers and guide dog
>>> school
>>>> graduates. Programs like the Seeing Eye and others with similar
> practices
>>>> would do well to enter the new Milennium on this matter or face the
>>>> possibility of a legislative mandate to do so. Guide dog handlers have
a
>>>> right to learn about their dog's up-bringing. Who best to provide that
>>>> information than the dog's puppy raiser.

>>>>    One Seeing Eye Instructor told me that when one adopts a child
> contact
>>>> information for the child's former parents is withheld. The same should
>> be
>>>> done in the case of guide dog puppy raisers and SE'S graduates. I
>> wouldn't
>>>> be pressed to want such information from an adoption agency in the
first
>>>> place. As the child becomes a part of the family and begins to share
>>> his/her

>>>> background I'd have a way to get the information I need to be a more
>>>> effective parent. A dog is unable to communicate such information to
its
>>>> owner. I have had guide dogs from several guide dog schools and had no
>>>> issues with communication between myself and the dog's raiser. I have
>> very
>>>> specific requirements any future guide dog program would need to me if
>> I'm
>>>> to seek training from them. Because all guide dog programs have one
less
>>>> then desireable practice or another switching schools to address the
>> puppy
>>>> raiser communication issue is not an option. No self-respecting blind
>>>> individual should be put in such a predicament. Let's make sure
> graduates
>>> of

>>>> all guide dog programs have the opportunity to communicate directly
with
>>>> their dog's puppy family if they choose to do so.

>>>>    These are just two issues a "Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights" could
>>>> address. I'm sure folks on these lists can think of more. It's an idea
>>> worth

>>>> considering to help put an end to practices many of us find demeaning
> and
>>>> offensive. Thanks for reading.

>>>> Peter Donahue




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