[nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

Julie J julielj at neb.rr.com
Sun Jan 30 21:35:37 UTC 2011 

Jordan wrote:
*That is the business's choice on what policies and regulations they will 
have and someone must follow.*

Yes, to a point, but they must still follow laws and regulations.  If I open 
a store I get to decide what to sell.  But if I have a loan to start that 
business the bank has a say about my business plan.  I can decide I only 
want to sell purple pants, but I can't decide not to sell to purple people 
because that is racial discrimination.  I can decide that I want to sell 
everything for $2.99, but I can't decide not to pay taxes.

My point is that while some decisions are within the scope of the guide dog 
schools discretion, others are not.  If the programs, policies or procedures 
violate contractual agreements, laws or individual's rights, it is not okay 
for the school to have those policies.  For example your assertion that TSE 
repossessed your dog violates the contract you signed, giving you ownership 
of the dog, unless I've missed something that is different about your 
contract.

Julie


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jordan Gallacher" <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights


> That is the business's choice on what policies and regulations they will
> have and someone must follow.
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:51 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>
> Why should the school need a year to make this determination. I should 
> think
> they can figure that out before the student leaves. If they have elected 
> to
> take the student in the first place, and if he/she has passed their 
> training
> satisfactorily, then they should own the dog when they walk out the door
> with ample follow up available.
>
> On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:20 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:
>
>> Here is how ownership should be.  The school should own the dog for no
> more
>> than the first year or until the school knows that the user is properly
>> using the dog.
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Steven Johnson
>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:04 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users';
> 'Blind
>> Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>
>> Peter,
>>
>> This is an interesting idea.  One thing that I don't believe you touched
> on,
>> or may have indirectly, is the issue of ownership which has been an
> ongoing
>> issue of discussion among the dog guide community and NAGDU for a very
> long
>> time.  This might be one way to at least bring this a little closer to
>> creating something that addresses this.
>>
>> Again, an interesting idea.  I will be eager to hear what others think.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Peter Donahue
>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:48 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>    The situation Marion posted about concerning Fidelco's removal of dogs
>> from graduates without detailed bonified reasons for doing so along with
>> other issues concerning the treatment of students in training and 
>> gradutes
>
>> of guide dog programs is leading me to believe that perhaps the best way
> to
>> address them is through legislation I'll refer to as a "Guide Dog
> Handler's
>> Bill of Rights." Such legislation would require guide dog programs among
>> other things to give valid reasons for the removal of someone's dog and 
>> an
>
>> appeals  procedure to be put in place should a guide dog handler feel
> he/she
>>
>> has been wrongly accused of mistreatment of the dog. Yes it's true there
> are
>>
>> irresponsible guide dog handlers among us just as there are irresponsible
>> individuals in our society. This is no reason to treat the blind like
>> children.
>>
>> The failure of Fidelco to give the graduate in question valid reasons for
>> the removal of the dog is a situation we should not tolerate and need to
> put
>>
>> a stop to. Leader Dogs has also behaved in a similar way towards its
>> graduates. If memory serves me correctly a Leader Dog Graduate's dog was
>> removed from them during a recent national convention. And as I recall
> there
>>
>> was insufficient reasons for the removal of that dog from its handler.
>>
>>    A Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights could require all guide dog 
>> programs
>
>> to give their graduates full ownership of their dogs upon successful
>> completion of their programs. I emphasize the word "Successful."
>>
>>        Another issue the legislation could address is communication
> between
>>
>> guide dog handlers and puppy raisers. In most cases this isn't an issue.
>> Sadly there is at least one U.S. guide dog organization that refuzes to
>> offer their graduates and puppy raisers the opportunity to communicate
>> directly with each other. The Seeing Eye only permits communication
> between
>> the two parties through the school. It removes all contact information
> from
>> correspondence from notes passed between the two parties. Such a 
>> custodial
>
>> practice also subjects both parties to censorship of such correspondence
> by
>> the school. Has this organization and others that may have similar
> practices
>>
>> forgotten that they're dealing with adults who must learn to manage their
>> life's affairs including how communication between themselves and their
>> dog's puppy raiser will occur if it does at all. This decision should 
>> rest
>
>> with the parties in question and not the dictates of a guide dog program
>> that thinks it is doing the right thing when in reallity it is doing more
>> harm than good.
>>
>>    A guide dog handler's Bill of Rights would require guide dog programs
> to
>>
>> establish procedures for facilitating direct communication between its
>> graduates and puppy raisers and would prohibit the removal of contact
>> information it may pass between them.
>>
>>    A number of Seeing Eye graduates have discussed this matter with the
>> school only to receive one excuse after another. And oh yes. As was told
> to
>> Marion by Fidelco concerning the graduate who's dog was wrongly removed
> the
>> same old fashion voodoo about confidentiality and privacy are touted
>> concerning direct communication between puppy handlers and guide dog
> school
>> graduates. Programs like the Seeing Eye and others with similar practices
>> would do well to enter the new Milennium on this matter or face the
>> possibility of a legislative mandate to do so. Guide dog handlers have a
>> right to learn about their dog's up-bringing. Who best to provide that
>> information than the dog's puppy raiser.
>>
>>    One Seeing Eye Instructor told me that when one adopts a child contact
>> information for the child's former parents is withheld. The same should 
>> be
>
>> done in the case of guide dog puppy raisers and SE'S graduates. I 
>> wouldn't
>
>> be pressed to want such information from an adoption agency in the first
>> place. As the child becomes a part of the family and begins to share
> his/her
>>
>> background I'd have a way to get the information I need to be a more
>> effective parent. A dog is unable to communicate such information to its
>> owner. I have had guide dogs from several guide dog schools and had no
>> issues with communication between myself and the dog's raiser. I have 
>> very
>
>> specific requirements any future guide dog program would need to me if 
>> I'm
>
>> to seek training from them. Because all guide dog programs have one less
>> then desireable practice or another switching schools to address the 
>> puppy
>
>> raiser communication issue is not an option. No self-respecting blind
>> individual should be put in such a predicament. Let's make sure graduates
> of
>>
>> all guide dog programs have the opportunity to communicate directly with
>> their dog's puppy family if they choose to do so.
>>
>>    These are just two issues a "Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights" could
>> address. I'm sure folks on these lists can think of more. It's an idea
> worth
>>
>> considering to help put an end to practices many of us find demeaning and
>> offensive. Thanks for reading.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>>
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