[nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

Jordan Gallacher jgallacher1987 at gmail.com
Sun Jan 30 22:13:37 UTC 2011 

Lol.  I am starting to work on a proposal for a business that I am thinking
of starting,and contracts are going to be a huge part of the business, and
you have to follow the contract or risk having legal trouble.
Jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:01 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

I was being sarcastic mostly. lol

There should be a standard at all guide dog schools period,  and ownership
should be part of that.

Being also many work environments of my 20+ years of work experience, and I
still keep up all my certifications and school when it is time to renew
them.

Contracts are contracts, I am trying to help Marion with this issue as well
as others within the NFB.

I work on contracts every day in my business as a travel agent, being a
medical insurance specialist and a Legal Secretary that specializes in
contract law for when I worked in a Sales Company.

If I do not keep to my contract to my client and visa versa then I can be
sued. But I cannot go to someone and say I don't want you to go somewhere
and not give you back your money is wrong and I can be sued.

The school is wrong and we need to support this issue and not go against one
another on this and stick together, we are all lucky we have our dogs, and
we don't want a guide dog school coming into our home and take it away for
no reasons. 

  
The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services! 

Cheryl Echevarria 
http://www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/> 
1-866-580-5574 or 631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>

Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel Inc.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Cindy Ray<mailto:cindyray at gmail.com> 
  To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
  Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:51 PM
  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights


  No, I don't think he was. He was just saying that if the person is not
getting out more than once in   a week, then that person should not have a
dog. But if you are going to make that kind of judgment, than any of the
other hot topic judgments should be valid. I was once not going to get
another dog because I felt like maybe I did not get out enough. The school
felt like if I was getting use out of that dog at all, if it was guiding me
someplace and making travel easier for me, then it was not a waste as far as
they were concerned. 



  On Jan 30, 2011, at 3:29 PM, cheryl echevarria wrote:

  > Exactly, lately because of the bad weather I can't get out of the house,
my own issues here, so does that make me want to give my dog back, there are
75 year old, that travel and are not the old 75, the person should be able
to take care of the dog, give it a good home, love and kindness.
  > 
  > We have 75 year old NFB Leaders in this organization that travel a lot
of our organization, should we be putting a stamp on age of the person. Or
should we be putting 75 year olds in a box like the sighted want to do with
us the blind, put us away and lock the door and not let us out.
  > 
  > Not good at all.
  > 
  > The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services! 
  > 
  > Cheryl Echevarria 
  >
http://www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/<http://www.
echevarriatravel.com%3chttp//www.echevarriatravel.com/>> 
  > 1-866-580-5574 or 631-456-5394
  >
reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com<m
ailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:reservations at echevarriatrav
el.com>>
  > 
  > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
CST-1018299-10
  > Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise and Travel
Inc.
  >  ----- Original Message ----- 
  >  From: Marsha
Drenth<mailto:marsha.drenth at gmail.com<mailto:marsha.drenth at gmail.com>> 
  >  To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>> 
  >  Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:25 PM
  >  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
  > 
  > 
  >  There are users who are say 75 years old, who get guides, who only
leave the
  >  house once a week to get coffee, or to check the mail, or to go to a
doctors
  >  appointment. And your saying this is wrong? If that 75 year old has had
  >  guides all their lives. Who is it for us to say that for a user to use
a pup
  >  once a week is wrong or right?
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  >  -----Original Message-----
  >  From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  >  Of Jordan Gallacher
  >  Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:01 PM
  >  To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
  >  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
  > 
  >  Yes,. If you only use the dog once a week, you should not have the dog.
.
  >  Jordan
  > 
  >  -----Original Message-----
  >  From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  >  Of Cindy Ray
  >  Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:56 PM
  >  To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
  > 
  >  Jordan, you hae some pretty amazing ideas on other topics; yet you want
your
  >  school to have a year's right to remove your dog. First of all, how can
it
  >  necessarily be proved that the dog isn't being used for the original
  >  purpose. Second, what is that. I mean, what kind of flexibility is
there in
  >  that statement. Let's say I get a dog but I only go out once a week. Is
that
  >  mishandling of the dog? In a way, yes, or at least it is poor
stewardship
  >  because of the cost of training one. Should that dog be removed from
me.
  >  People hae ideas that we are mistreating our dogs all of the time. Who
is
  >  going to prove that I am. How are you going to determine if I am a
valid
  >  user in a year if you haven't determined that by the time I leave. If
word
  >  filters down that I sold the dog to a dog fighter or did something
equally
  >  weird, and that word got out, I should never again be allowed to have
  >  another, and I guess I think it would even be fair if that was shared
with
  >  other schools.
  > 
  >  On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:
  > 
  >> No, the school needs to have a way to make sure that the dog is being
used
  >> properly and have an easy way to take back the dog if need be.  You can
go
  >> through the entire training process and get home and never use, mis
  >  handle,
  >> etc the dog.
  >> Jordan
  >> 
  >> -----Original Message-----
  >> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  >> Of Nimer Jaber
  >> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:36 PM
  >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
  >> 
  >> Jordan,
  >> 
  >> I find this to be ludicrous. If the school trusted you enough after
  >> their extensive app process to get you there, to train you, to hand
  >> over the dog to you and allow you to leave their campus, surely they
  >> can be comfortable enough to give you ownership? What is the point of
  >> an application if they're not giving you ownership and they're going
  >> to make sure that you take careo f your dog for a year? Shouldn't they
  >> just do that instead of an application process lasting months,
  >> requiring a home interview, countless references, etc etc? Just to
  >> clarify, I agree with the interview process, I just find that the
  >> schools retaining ownership to be silly. This would save them costs.
  >> This would save them the headache. And as has already been pointed
  >> out, we aren't children. If someone can't handle their dog, there are
  >> channels that can be followed to get that animal removed.
  >> 
  >> Thanks.
  >> 
  >> On 30/01/2011, Jordan Gallacher
<jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1
987 at gmail.com%3Cmailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>>> wrote:
  >>> Here is how ownership should be.  The school should own the dog for no
  >> more
  >>> than the first year or until the school knows that the user is
properly
  >>> using the dog.
  >>> Jordan
  >>> 
  >>> -----Original Message-----
  >>> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >  Behalf
  >>> Of Steven Johnson
  >>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:04 PM
  >>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users';
  >> 'Blind
  >>> Talk Mailing List'
  >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
  >>> 
  >>> Peter,
  >>> 
  >>> This is an interesting idea.  One thing that I don't believe you
touched
  >> on,
  >>> or may have indirectly, is the issue of ownership which has been an
  >> ongoing
  >>> issue of discussion among the dog guide community and NAGDU for a very
  >> long
  >>> time.  This might be one way to at least bring this a little closer to
  >>> creating something that addresses this.
  >>> 
  >>> Again, an interesting idea.  I will be eager to hear what others
think.
  >>> 
  >>> Steve
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> -----Original Message-----
  >>> From:
nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounce
s at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >  Behalf
  >>> Of Peter Donahue
  >>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:48 PM
  >>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
  >>> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> Hello everyone,
  >>> 
  >>>   The situation Marion posted about concerning Fidelco's removal of
dogs
  >>> from graduates without detailed bonified reasons for doing so along
with
  >>> other issues concerning the treatment of students in training and
  >  gradutes
  >>> of guide dog programs is leading me to believe that perhaps the best
way
  >> to
  >>> address them is through legislation I'll refer to as a "Guide Dog
  >> Handler's
  >>> Bill of Rights." Such legislation would require guide dog programs
among
  >>> other things to give valid reasons for the removal of someone's dog
and
  >  an
  >>> appeals  procedure to be put in place should a guide dog handler feel
  >> he/she
  >>> 
  >>> has been wrongly accused of mistreatment of the dog. Yes it's true
there
  >> are
  >>> 
  >>> irresponsible guide dog handlers among us just as there are
irresponsible
  >>> individuals in our society. This is no reason to treat the blind like
  >>> children.
  >>> 
  >>> The failure of Fidelco to give the graduate in question valid reasons
for
  >>> the removal of the dog is a situation we should not tolerate and need
to
  >> put
  >>> 
  >>> a stop to. Leader Dogs has also behaved in a similar way towards its
  >>> graduates. If memory serves me correctly a Leader Dog Graduate's dog
was
  >>> removed from them during a recent national convention. And as I recall
  >> there
  >>> 
  >>> was insufficient reasons for the removal of that dog from its handler.
  >>> 
  >>>   A Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights could require all guide dog
  >> programs
  >>> to give their graduates full ownership of their dogs upon successful
  >>> completion of their programs. I emphasize the word "Successful."
  >>> 
  >>>       Another issue the legislation could address is communication
  >> between
  >>> 
  >>> guide dog handlers and puppy raisers. In most cases this isn't an
issue.
  >>> Sadly there is at least one U.S. guide dog organization that refuzes
to
  >>> offer their graduates and puppy raisers the opportunity to communicate
  >>> directly with each other. The Seeing Eye only permits communication
  >> between
  >>> the two parties through the school. It removes all contact information
  >> from
  >>> correspondence from notes passed between the two parties. Such a
  >  custodial
  >>> practice also subjects both parties to censorship of such
correspondence
  >> by
  >>> the school. Has this organization and others that may have similar
  >> practices
  >>> 
  >>> forgotten that they're dealing with adults who must learn to manage
their
  >>> life's affairs including how communication between themselves and
their
  >>> dog's puppy raiser will occur if it does at all. This decision should
  >  rest
  >>> with the parties in question and not the dictates of a guide dog
program
  >>> that thinks it is doing the right thing when in reallity it is doing
more
  >>> harm than good.
  >>> 
  >>>   A guide dog handler's Bill of Rights would require guide dog
programs
  >> to
  >>> 
  >>> establish procedures for facilitating direct communication between its
  >>> graduates and puppy raisers and would prohibit the removal of contact
  >>> information it may pass between them.
  >>> 
  >>>   A number of Seeing Eye graduates have discussed this matter with the
  >>> school only to receive one excuse after another. And oh yes. As was
told
  >> to
  >>> Marion by Fidelco concerning the graduate who's dog was wrongly
removed
  >> the
  >>> same old fashion voodoo about confidentiality and privacy are touted
  >>> concerning direct communication between puppy handlers and guide dog
  >> school
  >>> graduates. Programs like the Seeing Eye and others with similar
practices
  >>> would do well to enter the new Milennium on this matter or face the
  >>> possibility of a legislative mandate to do so. Guide dog handlers have
a
  >>> right to learn about their dog's up-bringing. Who best to provide that
  >>> information than the dog's puppy raiser.
  >>> 
  >>>   One Seeing Eye Instructor told me that when one adopts a child
contact
  >>> information for the child's former parents is withheld. The same
should
  >  be
  >>> done in the case of guide dog puppy raisers and SE'S graduates. I
  >  wouldn't
  >>> be pressed to want such information from an adoption agency in the
first
  >>> place. As the child becomes a part of the family and begins to share
  >> his/her
  >>> 
  >>> background I'd have a way to get the information I need to be a more
  >>> effective parent. A dog is unable to communicate such information to
its
  >>> owner. I have had guide dogs from several guide dog schools and had no
  >>> issues with communication between myself and the dog's raiser. I have
  >  very
  >>> specific requirements any future guide dog program would need to me if
  >  I'm
  >>> to seek training from them. Because all guide dog programs have one
less
  >>> then desireable practice or another switching schools to address the
  >  puppy
  >>> raiser communication issue is not an option. No self-respecting blind
  >>> individual should be put in such a predicament. Let's make sure
graduates
  >> of
  >>> 
  >>> all guide dog programs have the opportunity to communicate directly
with
  >>> their dog's puppy family if they choose to do so.
  >>> 
  >>>   These are just two issues a "Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights" could
  >>> address. I'm sure folks on these lists can think of more. It's an idea
  >> worth
  >>> 
  >>> considering to help put an end to practices many of us find demeaning
and
  >>> offensive. Thanks for reading.
  >>> 
  >>> Peter Donahue
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> 
  >>> _______________________________________________
  >>> nagdu mailing list
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