[nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

Sun Jan 30 22:13:37 UTC 2011

Now you have taken this in a whole different direction.  If you have other
health conditions, that is one thing.  If you get a dog and only use it once
a week, that is a bigger problem no matter how old you are.  Weather is a
fator too.
Jordans

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:44 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

Jordan I work from home and I am also a transplant patient which GDF knows
about, so when the weather is bad and cold like it is here in NY, I do not
go fearing risk to my own health, but when the weather is good for me to do
so, I go out 2 to 3 times a week, not every day, I walk him when the weather
is good in harness to make sure he is working properly, etc.

I own my dog, so GDF shouldn't give me another dog in the future since I
work from home which they also know, they know the weather here in NY, and I
go out 2 possibly 3 times a week unless I am on travel. I should give my dog
back.

Oh yes, if I am still going strong at 75 I also shouldn't have a dog.

Okay so when I am 75 I am not going to see my grandchildren, I am not going
to Albany or Washington, DC or even like Orlando, in your eyes anyway, and I
shouldn't have a dog.

Well I also shouldn't have gotten a kidney from my friend either, I should
have died at 37 and not be hear listening to this nonsense.

If I am given the chance to have a guide dog, I will have one.

Since it is a legal binding contract between a school and myself when I
signed to be able to own my dog, no one should take it away from me because
I am not giving him the food that they don't want me to.  Or what they
prefer.

If I am abusing my dog prove it, and if you have found that I have abused
the dog, then you can take it away from me.

But if you are not giving reputable cause as to why you are taking my  dog
away from me.  Then leave the dog alone.

The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services! 

Cheryl Echevarria 
http://www.Echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/> 
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Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
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The biggest compliment you can pay me is to recommend my services! 

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  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jordan Gallacher<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com> 
  To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
  Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

  The only time I won't take my dog is if it is a major thunderstorm,
although
  there are so many places on campus that are tricky with a cane, that I
  debate about what I just said.
  Jordan

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  Of d m gina
  Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:27 PM
  To: nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

  Oh send the rain our way, it is snowing.
  I just did a bargon with my dog.
  If he went out and did his chores he would get a treat.
  Trust me he went quickly loll.

  Original message:
  > We  had an ice storm in Ruston and my dog worked fine even though it
  started
  > raining ice on the way back from dinner.
  > Jordan

  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  > Of d m gina
  > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:14 PM
  > To: nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

  > I disagree here,
  > I'm pleased the school I work with is quite understanding on behalf of
  > winter.
  > Gee they work in it when they can.
  > Even they had problems this year.

  > Original message:
  >> Yes,. If you only use the dog once a week, you should not have the dog.
  .
  >> Jordan

  >> -----Original Message-----
  >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  Behalf
  >> Of Cindy Ray
  >> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:56 PM
  >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

  >> Jordan, you hae some pretty amazing ideas on other topics; yet you want
  > your
  >> school to have a year's right to remove your dog. First of all, how can
  it
  >> necessarily be proved that the dog isn't being used for the original
  >> purpose. Second, what is that. I mean, what kind of flexibility is
there
  > in
  >> that statement. Let's say I get a dog but I only go out once a week. Is
  > that
  >> mishandling of the dog? In a way, yes, or at least it is poor
stewardship
  >> because of the cost of training one. Should that dog be removed from
me.
  >> People hae ideas that we are mistreating our dogs all of the time. Who
is
  >> going to prove that I am. How are you going to determine if I am a
valid
  >> user in a year if you haven't determined that by the time I leave. If
  word
  >> filters down that I sold the dog to a dog fighter or did something
  equally
  >> weird, and that word got out, I should never again be allowed to have
  >> another, and I guess I think it would even be fair if that was shared
  with
  >> other schools.

  >> On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:

  >>> No, the school needs to have a way to make sure that the dog is being
  > used
  >>> properly and have an easy way to take back the dog if need be.  You
can
  > go
  >>> through the entire training process and get home and never use, mis
  >> handle,
  >>> etc the dog.
  >>> Jordan

  >>> -----Original Message-----
  >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  > Behalf
  >>> Of Nimer Jaber
  >>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:36 PM
  >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

  >>> Jordan,

  >>> I find this to be ludicrous. If the school trusted you enough after
  >>> their extensive app process to get you there, to train you, to hand
  >>> over the dog to you and allow you to leave their campus, surely they
  >>> can be comfortable enough to give you ownership? What is the point of
  >>> an application if they're not giving you ownership and they're going
  >>> to make sure that you take careo f your dog for a year? Shouldn't they
  >>> just do that instead of an application process lasting months,
  >>> requiring a home interview, countless references, etc etc? Just to
  >>> clarify, I agree with the interview process, I just find that the
  >>> schools retaining ownership to be silly. This would save them costs.
  >>> This would save them the headache. And as has already been pointed
  >>> out, we aren't children. If someone can't handle their dog, there are
  >>> channels that can be followed to get that animal removed.

  >>> Thanks.

  >>> On 30/01/2011, Jordan Gallacher
<jgallacher1987 at gmail.com<mailto:jgallacher1987 at gmail.com>> wrote:
  >>>> Here is how ownership should be.  The school should own the dog for
no
  >>> more
  >>>> than the first year or until the school knows that the user is
properly
  >>>> using the dog.
  >>>> Jordan

  >>>> -----Original Message-----
  >>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >> Behalf
  >>>> Of Steven Johnson
  >>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:04 PM
  >>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users';
  >>> 'Blind
  >>>> Talk Mailing List'
  >>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

  >>>> Peter,

  >>>> This is an interesting idea.  One thing that I don't believe you
  touched
  >>> on,
  >>>> or may have indirectly, is the issue of ownership which has been an
  >>> ongoing
  >>>> issue of discussion among the dog guide community and NAGDU for a
very
  >>> long
  >>>> time.  This might be one way to at least bring this a little closer
to
  >>>> creating something that addresses this.

  >>>> Again, an interesting idea.  I will be eager to hear what others
think.

  >>>> Steve

  >>>> -----Original Message-----
  >>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >> Behalf
  >>>> Of Peter Donahue
  >>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:48 PM
  >>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
  >>>> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

  >>>> Hello everyone,

  >>>>    The situation Marion posted about concerning Fidelco's removal of
  > dogs
  >>>> from graduates without detailed bonified reasons for doing so along
  with
  >>>> other issues concerning the treatment of students in training and
  >> gradutes
  >>>> of guide dog programs is leading me to believe that perhaps the best
  way
  >>> to
  >>>> address them is through legislation I'll refer to as a "Guide Dog
  >>> Handler's
  >>>> Bill of Rights." Such legislation would require guide dog programs
  among
  >>>> other things to give valid reasons for the removal of someone's dog
and
  >> an
  >>>> appeals  procedure to be put in place should a guide dog handler feel
  >>> he/she

  >>>> has been wrongly accused of mistreatment of the dog. Yes it's true
  there
  >>> are

  >>>> irresponsible guide dog handlers among us just as there are
  > irresponsible
  >>>> individuals in our society. This is no reason to treat the blind like
  >>>> children.

  >>>> The failure of Fidelco to give the graduate in question valid reasons
  > for
  >>>> the removal of the dog is a situation we should not tolerate and need
  to
  >>> put

  >>>> a stop to. Leader Dogs has also behaved in a similar way towards its
  >>>> graduates. If memory serves me correctly a Leader Dog Graduate's dog
  was
  >>>> removed from them during a recent national convention. And as I
recall
  >>> there

  >>>> was insufficient reasons for the removal of that dog from its
handler.

  >>>>    A Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights could require all guide dog
  >>> programs
  >>>> to give their graduates full ownership of their dogs upon successful
  >>>> completion of their programs. I emphasize the word "Successful."

  >>>>        Another issue the legislation could address is communication
  >>> between

  >>>> guide dog handlers and puppy raisers. In most cases this isn't an
  issue.
  >>>> Sadly there is at least one U.S. guide dog organization that refuzes
to
  >>>> offer their graduates and puppy raisers the opportunity to
communicate
  >>>> directly with each other. The Seeing Eye only permits communication
  >>> between
  >>>> the two parties through the school. It removes all contact
information
  >>> from
  >>>> correspondence from notes passed between the two parties. Such a
  >> custodial
  >>>> practice also subjects both parties to censorship of such
  correspondence
  >>> by
  >>>> the school. Has this organization and others that may have similar
  >>> practices

  >>>> forgotten that they're dealing with adults who must learn to manage
  > their
  >>>> life's affairs including how communication between themselves and
their
  >>>> dog's puppy raiser will occur if it does at all. This decision should
  >> rest
  >>>> with the parties in question and not the dictates of a guide dog
  program
  >>>> that thinks it is doing the right thing when in reallity it is doing
  > more
  >>>> harm than good.

  >>>>    A guide dog handler's Bill of Rights would require guide dog
  programs
  >>> to

  >>>> establish procedures for facilitating direct communication between
its
  >>>> graduates and puppy raisers and would prohibit the removal of contact
  >>>> information it may pass between them.

  >>>>    A number of Seeing Eye graduates have discussed this matter with
the
  >>>> school only to receive one excuse after another. And oh yes. As was
  told
  >>> to
  >>>> Marion by Fidelco concerning the graduate who's dog was wrongly
removed
  >>> the
  >>>> same old fashion voodoo about confidentiality and privacy are touted
  >>>> concerning direct communication between puppy handlers and guide dog
  >>> school
  >>>> graduates. Programs like the Seeing Eye and others with similar
  > practices
  >>>> would do well to enter the new Milennium on this matter or face the
  >>>> possibility of a legislative mandate to do so. Guide dog handlers
have
  a
  >>>> right to learn about their dog's up-bringing. Who best to provide
that
  >>>> information than the dog's puppy raiser.

  >>>>    One Seeing Eye Instructor told me that when one adopts a child
  > contact
  >>>> information for the child's former parents is withheld. The same
should
  >> be
  >>>> done in the case of guide dog puppy raisers and SE'S graduates. I
  >> wouldn't
  >>>> be pressed to want such information from an adoption agency in the
  first
  >>>> place. As the child becomes a part of the family and begins to share
  >>> his/her

  >>>> background I'd have a way to get the information I need to be a more
  >>>> effective parent. A dog is unable to communicate such information to
  its
  >>>> owner. I have had guide dogs from several guide dog schools and had
no
  >>>> issues with communication between myself and the dog's raiser. I have
  >> very
  >>>> specific requirements any future guide dog program would need to me
if
  >> I'm
  >>>> to seek training from them. Because all guide dog programs have one
  less
  >>>> then desireable practice or another switching schools to address the
  >> puppy
  >>>> raiser communication issue is not an option. No self-respecting blind
  >>>> individual should be put in such a predicament. Let's make sure
  > graduates
  >>> of

  >>>> all guide dog programs have the opportunity to communicate directly
  with
  >>>> their dog's puppy family if they choose to do so.

  >>>>    These are just two issues a "Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights"
could
  >>>> address. I'm sure folks on these lists can think of more. It's an
idea
  >>> worth

  >>>> considering to help put an end to practices many of us find demeaning
  > and
  >>>> offensive. Thanks for reading.

  >>>> Peter Donahue

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