[nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

Cindy Ray cindyray at gmail.com
Sun Jan 30 22:32:59 UTC 2011 

You know, we all have different lifestyles, different tolerances, different things we are able or not able to do, some maybe we could and could not. I think that each of us has to determine what our best use of a dog is, and if we do that with the school's help, then so much the better. And many may find they are able to do more than they ever thought they could.

On Jan 30, 2011, at 4:13 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:

> You have never been down here have you?  Let me just say this.  It is a warm
> year and has been in the 60's for a while.  Normally it would be somewhere
> around 32 to 34 degrees this time of year, and being from where I am from
> origionally, I am used to colder.
> Jordan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marsha Drenth
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:29 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
> 
> Your in LA, and the weather is much much different from say Montana or PA,
> or Maine, where the snowy months can last 4 or more months. Requiring a dog
> to work in freezing weather all the time, is not only unhealthy for you, but
> for the pup. Why make yourself and your dog uncomfortable in such cold
> weather, when you do not have to.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Jordan Gallacher
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:17 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
> 
> We  had an ice storm in Ruston and my dog worked fine even though it started
> raining ice on the way back from dinner.
> Jordan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of d m gina
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:14 PM
> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
> 
> I disagree here,
> I'm pleased the school I work with is quite understanding on behalf of
> winter.
> Gee they work in it when they can.
> Even they had problems this year.
> 
> Original message:
>> Yes,. If you only use the dog once a week, you should not have the dog.  .
>> Jordan
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:56 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
> 
>> Jordan, you hae some pretty amazing ideas on other topics; yet you want
> your
>> school to have a year's right to remove your dog. First of all, how can it
>> necessarily be proved that the dog isn't being used for the original
>> purpose. Second, what is that. I mean, what kind of flexibility is there
> in
>> that statement. Let's say I get a dog but I only go out once a week. Is
> that
>> mishandling of the dog? In a way, yes, or at least it is poor stewardship
>> because of the cost of training one. Should that dog be removed from me.
>> People hae ideas that we are mistreating our dogs all of the time. Who is
>> going to prove that I am. How are you going to determine if I am a valid
>> user in a year if you haven't determined that by the time I leave. If word
>> filters down that I sold the dog to a dog fighter or did something equally
>> weird, and that word got out, I should never again be allowed to have
>> another, and I guess I think it would even be fair if that was shared with
>> other schools.
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:
> 
>>> No, the school needs to have a way to make sure that the dog is being
> used
>>> properly and have an easy way to take back the dog if need be.  You can
> go
>>> through the entire training process and get home and never use, mis
>> handle,
>>> etc the dog.
>>> Jordan
> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>>> Of Nimer Jaber
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:36 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
> 
>>> Jordan,
> 
>>> I find this to be ludicrous. If the school trusted you enough after
>>> their extensive app process to get you there, to train you, to hand
>>> over the dog to you and allow you to leave their campus, surely they
>>> can be comfortable enough to give you ownership? What is the point of
>>> an application if they're not giving you ownership and they're going
>>> to make sure that you take careo f your dog for a year? Shouldn't they
>>> just do that instead of an application process lasting months,
>>> requiring a home interview, countless references, etc etc? Just to
>>> clarify, I agree with the interview process, I just find that the
>>> schools retaining ownership to be silly. This would save them costs.
>>> This would save them the headache. And as has already been pointed
>>> out, we aren't children. If someone can't handle their dog, there are
>>> channels that can be followed to get that animal removed.
> 
>>> Thanks.
> 
>>> On 30/01/2011, Jordan Gallacher <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Here is how ownership should be.  The school should own the dog for no
>>> more
>>>> than the first year or until the school knows that the user is properly
>>>> using the dog.
>>>> Jordan
> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>>> Of Steven Johnson
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:04 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users';
>>> 'Blind
>>>> Talk Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
> 
>>>> Peter,
> 
>>>> This is an interesting idea.  One thing that I don't believe you touched
>>> on,
>>>> or may have indirectly, is the issue of ownership which has been an
>>> ongoing
>>>> issue of discussion among the dog guide community and NAGDU for a very
>>> long
>>>> time.  This might be one way to at least bring this a little closer to
>>>> creating something that addresses this.
> 
>>>> Again, an interesting idea.  I will be eager to hear what others think.
> 
>>>> Steve
> 
> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>>> Of Peter Donahue
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:48 PM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
> 
> 
>>>> Hello everyone,
> 
>>>>   The situation Marion posted about concerning Fidelco's removal of
> dogs
>>>> from graduates without detailed bonified reasons for doing so along with
>>>> other issues concerning the treatment of students in training and
>> gradutes
>>>> of guide dog programs is leading me to believe that perhaps the best way
>>> to
>>>> address them is through legislation I'll refer to as a "Guide Dog
>>> Handler's
>>>> Bill of Rights." Such legislation would require guide dog programs among
>>>> other things to give valid reasons for the removal of someone's dog and
>> an
>>>> appeals  procedure to be put in place should a guide dog handler feel
>>> he/she
> 
>>>> has been wrongly accused of mistreatment of the dog. Yes it's true there
>>> are
> 
>>>> irresponsible guide dog handlers among us just as there are
> irresponsible
>>>> individuals in our society. This is no reason to treat the blind like
>>>> children.
> 
>>>> The failure of Fidelco to give the graduate in question valid reasons
> for
>>>> the removal of the dog is a situation we should not tolerate and need to
>>> put
> 
>>>> a stop to. Leader Dogs has also behaved in a similar way towards its
>>>> graduates. If memory serves me correctly a Leader Dog Graduate's dog was
>>>> removed from them during a recent national convention. And as I recall
>>> there
> 
>>>> was insufficient reasons for the removal of that dog from its handler.
> 
>>>>   A Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights could require all guide dog
>>> programs
>>>> to give their graduates full ownership of their dogs upon successful
>>>> completion of their programs. I emphasize the word "Successful."
> 
>>>>       Another issue the legislation could address is communication
>>> between
> 
>>>> guide dog handlers and puppy raisers. In most cases this isn't an issue.
>>>> Sadly there is at least one U.S. guide dog organization that refuzes to
>>>> offer their graduates and puppy raisers the opportunity to communicate
>>>> directly with each other. The Seeing Eye only permits communication
>>> between
>>>> the two parties through the school. It removes all contact information
>>> from
>>>> correspondence from notes passed between the two parties. Such a
>> custodial
>>>> practice also subjects both parties to censorship of such correspondence
>>> by
>>>> the school. Has this organization and others that may have similar
>>> practices
> 
>>>> forgotten that they're dealing with adults who must learn to manage
> their
>>>> life's affairs including how communication between themselves and their
>>>> dog's puppy raiser will occur if it does at all. This decision should
>> rest
>>>> with the parties in question and not the dictates of a guide dog program
>>>> that thinks it is doing the right thing when in reallity it is doing
> more
>>>> harm than good.
> 
>>>>   A guide dog handler's Bill of Rights would require guide dog programs
>>> to
> 
>>>> establish procedures for facilitating direct communication between its
>>>> graduates and puppy raisers and would prohibit the removal of contact
>>>> information it may pass between them.
> 
>>>>   A number of Seeing Eye graduates have discussed this matter with the
>>>> school only to receive one excuse after another. And oh yes. As was told
>>> to
>>>> Marion by Fidelco concerning the graduate who's dog was wrongly removed
>>> the
>>>> same old fashion voodoo about confidentiality and privacy are touted
>>>> concerning direct communication between puppy handlers and guide dog
>>> school
>>>> graduates. Programs like the Seeing Eye and others with similar
> practices
>>>> would do well to enter the new Milennium on this matter or face the
>>>> possibility of a legislative mandate to do so. Guide dog handlers have a
>>>> right to learn about their dog's up-bringing. Who best to provide that
>>>> information than the dog's puppy raiser.
> 
>>>>   One Seeing Eye Instructor told me that when one adopts a child
> contact
>>>> information for the child's former parents is withheld. The same should
>> be
>>>> done in the case of guide dog puppy raisers and SE'S graduates. I
>> wouldn't
>>>> be pressed to want such information from an adoption agency in the first
>>>> place. As the child becomes a part of the family and begins to share
>>> his/her
> 
>>>> background I'd have a way to get the information I need to be a more
>>>> effective parent. A dog is unable to communicate such information to its
>>>> owner. I have had guide dogs from several guide dog schools and had no
>>>> issues with communication between myself and the dog's raiser. I have
>> very
>>>> specific requirements any future guide dog program would need to me if
>> I'm
>>>> to seek training from them. Because all guide dog programs have one less
>>>> then desireable practice or another switching schools to address the
>> puppy
>>>> raiser communication issue is not an option. No self-respecting blind
>>>> individual should be put in such a predicament. Let's make sure
> graduates
>>> of
> 
>>>> all guide dog programs have the opportunity to communicate directly with
>>>> their dog's puppy family if they choose to do so.
> 
>>>>   These are just two issues a "Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights" could
>>>> address. I'm sure folks on these lists can think of more. It's an idea
>>> worth
> 
>>>> considering to help put an end to practices many of us find demeaning
> and
>>>> offensive. Thanks for reading.
> 
>>>> Peter Donahue
> 
> 
> 
> 
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