[nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights

Melissa Green graduate56 at juno.com
Mon Jan 31 18:23:11 UTC 2011 

Well said.

Blessings and kind regards
Melissa Green
"Just like a sunbeam can't separate itself from the sun, and a wave can't 
separate itself from the ocean, we can't separate ourselves from one 
another. We are all part of a vast sea of love, one indivisible divine 
mind."

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "PICKRELL, REBECCA M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights


> Jordan,
>
> First of all, a school with such an attitude can take their dog back. I 
> don't need or want a dog that badly.
> Secondly, most people don't intend to only go out once a week with their 
> dog. I know I didn't. I got to the point with my daughter though that this 
> is what happened. You can't leave an infant home alone, and they sleep and 
> eat at times that the rest of the world does not. I found that my 
> daughter's bedtime was also my time to rest, and when I wasn't doing that, 
> it was my time to do laundry, hang with my husband, stay in touch with 
> friends, play on the computer, basically tasks I could do in my house. 
> Getting a baby ready to go out requires you pack up half the house. It 
> isn't difficult, but it is time consuming.
> I found that it was easier and easier to just not take my dog because 
> getting the dog ready required yet even more planning, not much, but 
> enough that it did add up.
> Also, add a kid that is sick to the mix and you have even more fun. And in 
> my case, these were garden variety illnesses, a stomach bug that lasted 
> for two or three days, an ear infection, and most recently a nasty case of 
> RSV. I left my house just once to take my daughter to the doctor. I was 
> home taking care of her during the day, and when my husband got home, you 
> can bet I wasn't wanting to go out anyplace. I was exausted from making 
> sure my daughter breathed properly, from giving her her breathing 
> treatments, monitoring her fever, making sure she drank and went potty, 
> and that sort of thing.
> Please be a little kinder in your judgements. Most people are not out 
> trying to screw the system. And most people have to think of other things 
> beyond "what's best for the dog". The dog lives in a family and other 
> family members have needs that will at times trump the dog's needs.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
> Of Jordan Gallacher
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:28 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>
> The only reason for not getting out with your dog is if you are injured or
> if the weather is hazardous to the dog.  Well, in the latter, you 
> shouldn't
> even be out in it if the weather is that bad.  If you get a dog and only 
> use
> it once a week, that is a waste of time for the school and you and
> eventually the school will find out.  Just remember that there are cameras
> everywhere these days and it is highly possible that any thing ccan be
> relayed to the school..
> Jordan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 3:20 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>
> I think to say that someone should not have a dog if he/she gets out with 
> it
> once a week, or for whatever reason is extremely subjective and 
> judgmental.
> I think, though, if I got a dog and the school found that I was using that
> dog as a pet and was rarely getting out with it or a ariety of other kinds
> of things, it would be well within their right to not give me the
> opportunity to have another from their school.
>
> On Jan 30, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:
>
>> Yes,. If you only use the dog once a week, you should not have the dog. 
>> .
>> Jordan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:56 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>
>> Jordan, you hae some pretty amazing ideas on other topics; yet you want
> your
>> school to have a year's right to remove your dog. First of all, how can 
>> it
>> necessarily be proved that the dog isn't being used for the original
>> purpose. Second, what is that. I mean, what kind of flexibility is there
> in
>> that statement. Let's say I get a dog but I only go out once a week. Is
> that
>> mishandling of the dog? In a way, yes, or at least it is poor stewardship
>> because of the cost of training one. Should that dog be removed from me.
>> People hae ideas that we are mistreating our dogs all of the time. Who is
>> going to prove that I am. How are you going to determine if I am a valid
>> user in a year if you haven't determined that by the time I leave. If 
>> word
>> filters down that I sold the dog to a dog fighter or did something 
>> equally
>> weird, and that word got out, I should never again be allowed to have
>> another, and I guess I think it would even be fair if that was shared 
>> with
>> other schools.
>>
>> On Jan 30, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Jordan Gallacher wrote:
>>
>>> No, the school needs to have a way to make sure that the dog is being
> used
>>> properly and have an easy way to take back the dog if need be.  You can
> go
>>> through the entire training process and get home and never use, mis
>> handle,
>>> etc the dog.
>>> Jordan
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>>> Of Nimer Jaber
>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:36 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>
>>> Jordan,
>>>
>>> I find this to be ludicrous. If the school trusted you enough after
>>> their extensive app process to get you there, to train you, to hand
>>> over the dog to you and allow you to leave their campus, surely they
>>> can be comfortable enough to give you ownership? What is the point of
>>> an application if they're not giving you ownership and they're going
>>> to make sure that you take careo f your dog for a year? Shouldn't they
>>> just do that instead of an application process lasting months,
>>> requiring a home interview, countless references, etc etc? Just to
>>> clarify, I agree with the interview process, I just find that the
>>> schools retaining ownership to be silly. This would save them costs.
>>> This would save them the headache. And as has already been pointed
>>> out, we aren't children. If someone can't handle their dog, there are
>>> channels that can be followed to get that animal removed.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 30/01/2011, Jordan Gallacher <jgallacher1987 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Here is how ownership should be.  The school should own the dog for no
>>> more
>>>> than the first year or until the school knows that the user is properly
>>>> using the dog.
>>>> Jordan
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>>> Of Steven Johnson
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 2:04 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users';
>>> 'Blind
>>>> Talk Mailing List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>> Peter,
>>>>
>>>> This is an interesting idea.  One thing that I don't believe you 
>>>> touched
>>> on,
>>>> or may have indirectly, is the issue of ownership which has been an
>>> ongoing
>>>> issue of discussion among the dog guide community and NAGDU for a very
>>> long
>>>> time.  This might be one way to at least bring this a little closer to
>>>> creating something that addresses this.
>>>>
>>>> Again, an interesting idea.  I will be eager to hear what others think.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>>> Of Peter Donahue
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:48 PM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List
>>>> Cc: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>>   The situation Marion posted about concerning Fidelco's removal of 
>>>> dogs
>>>> from graduates without detailed bonified reasons for doing so along 
>>>> with
>>>> other issues concerning the treatment of students in training and
>> gradutes
>>>> of guide dog programs is leading me to believe that perhaps the best 
>>>> way
>>> to
>>>> address them is through legislation I'll refer to as a "Guide Dog
>>> Handler's
>>>> Bill of Rights." Such legislation would require guide dog programs 
>>>> among
>>>> other things to give valid reasons for the removal of someone's dog and
>> an
>>>> appeals  procedure to be put in place should a guide dog handler feel
>>> he/she
>>>>
>>>> has been wrongly accused of mistreatment of the dog. Yes it's true 
>>>> there
>>> are
>>>>
>>>> irresponsible guide dog handlers among us just as there are
> irresponsible
>>>> individuals in our society. This is no reason to treat the blind like
>>>> children.
>>>>
>>>> The failure of Fidelco to give the graduate in question valid reasons
> for
>>>> the removal of the dog is a situation we should not tolerate and need 
>>>> to
>>> put
>>>>
>>>> a stop to. Leader Dogs has also behaved in a similar way towards its
>>>> graduates. If memory serves me correctly a Leader Dog Graduate's dog 
>>>> was
>>>> removed from them during a recent national convention. And as I recall
>>> there
>>>>
>>>> was insufficient reasons for the removal of that dog from its handler.
>>>>
>>>>   A Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights could require all guide dog
>>> programs
>>>> to give their graduates full ownership of their dogs upon successful
>>>> completion of their programs. I emphasize the word "Successful."
>>>>
>>>>       Another issue the legislation could address is communication
>>> between
>>>>
>>>> guide dog handlers and puppy raisers. In most cases this isn't an 
>>>> issue.
>>>> Sadly there is at least one U.S. guide dog organization that refuzes to
>>>> offer their graduates and puppy raisers the opportunity to communicate
>>>> directly with each other. The Seeing Eye only permits communication
>>> between
>>>> the two parties through the school. It removes all contact information
>>> from
>>>> correspondence from notes passed between the two parties. Such a
>> custodial
>>>> practice also subjects both parties to censorship of such 
>>>> correspondence
>>> by
>>>> the school. Has this organization and others that may have similar
>>> practices
>>>>
>>>> forgotten that they're dealing with adults who must learn to manage
> their
>>>> life's affairs including how communication between themselves and their
>>>> dog's puppy raiser will occur if it does at all. This decision should
>> rest
>>>> with the parties in question and not the dictates of a guide dog 
>>>> program
>>>> that thinks it is doing the right thing when in reallity it is doing
> more
>>>> harm than good.
>>>>
>>>>   A guide dog handler's Bill of Rights would require guide dog programs
>>> to
>>>>
>>>> establish procedures for facilitating direct communication between its
>>>> graduates and puppy raisers and would prohibit the removal of contact
>>>> information it may pass between them.
>>>>
>>>>   A number of Seeing Eye graduates have discussed this matter with the
>>>> school only to receive one excuse after another. And oh yes. As was 
>>>> told
>>> to
>>>> Marion by Fidelco concerning the graduate who's dog was wrongly removed
>>> the
>>>> same old fashion voodoo about confidentiality and privacy are touted
>>>> concerning direct communication between puppy handlers and guide dog
>>> school
>>>> graduates. Programs like the Seeing Eye and others with similar
> practices
>>>> would do well to enter the new Milennium on this matter or face the
>>>> possibility of a legislative mandate to do so. Guide dog handlers have 
>>>> a
>>>> right to learn about their dog's up-bringing. Who best to provide that
>>>> information than the dog's puppy raiser.
>>>>
>>>>   One Seeing Eye Instructor told me that when one adopts a child 
>>>> contact
>>>> information for the child's former parents is withheld. The same should
>> be
>>>> done in the case of guide dog puppy raisers and SE'S graduates. I
>> wouldn't
>>>> be pressed to want such information from an adoption agency in the 
>>>> first
>>>> place. As the child becomes a part of the family and begins to share
>>> his/her
>>>>
>>>> background I'd have a way to get the information I need to be a more
>>>> effective parent. A dog is unable to communicate such information to 
>>>> its
>>>> owner. I have had guide dogs from several guide dog schools and had no
>>>> issues with communication between myself and the dog's raiser. I have
>> very
>>>> specific requirements any future guide dog program would need to me if
>> I'm
>>>> to seek training from them. Because all guide dog programs have one 
>>>> less
>>>> then desireable practice or another switching schools to address the
>> puppy
>>>> raiser communication issue is not an option. No self-respecting blind
>>>> individual should be put in such a predicament. Let's make sure
> graduates
>>> of
>>>>
>>>> all guide dog programs have the opportunity to communicate directly 
>>>> with
>>>> their dog's puppy family if they choose to do so.
>>>>
>>>>   These are just two issues a "Guide Dog Handler Bill of Rights" could
>>>> address. I'm sure folks on these lists can think of more. It's an idea
>>> worth
>>>>
>>>> considering to help put an end to practices many of us find demeaning
> and
>>>> offensive. Thanks for reading.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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