[nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportationproviders
Tami Kinney
tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Sun Jul 31 21:00:54 UTC 2011
Heavens! That is most definitely a new twist on the same subject, isn't
it? Well, even before I started having to learn about guide dog related
access and discrimination I had had plenty of time to note that the B
word itself just makes some people's brains melt so that they behave in
strange and nonsensical ways.
This is one I hadn't heard before. Just when you thought you'd hear it
all...
Glad you got things worked out for your client. Hope he had or will
have a great trip. Sounds fun.
Tami
On Sat, 2011-07-30 at 17:27 -0400, cheryl echevarria wrote:
> Okay, here is an issue I have recently had, I think I had mentioned it. I have a client who is blind, traveling alone to Israel next month, he is well traveled, and only thing that he needed was an escorted tour, with other people, he didn't want a company that specialized in people that were blind or disabled, he likes meeting people who are not disabled, so that it is an education for them as well.
>
> He doesn't use a dog.
>
> I spoke to my supplier last week to finalize his travel, the supplier doesn't need to know anything about him other that he is healthy and traveling alone.
>
> Well, as soon as she knew he is blind, and mind you the client called the supplier, to find out how he will be met by the escort company when he arrives. She said to him OMG you are blind, the travel agent never said anything, she said are you bringing a dog with you, he says I don't' use one. Then how are you getting around, he said with my cane.
>
> She called me an insisted that he bring a dog because no one was going to help him, I said he doesn't need a dog, not everyone uses a dog, and he has traveled out of the country many times.
>
> Well he cannot go, I said you are violated ADA laws, by refusing him on the trip. I also said Israel has many many blind people there and part of the World Blind Union.
>
> Where is this going? Yes it is part of the discussion on whether to tell or not! I did all my home work on the man, he is healthy, doesn't have any other issues other than he is blind.
>
> They also assumed he uses a dog.
>
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
> 631-456-5394
> reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel, Inc.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Anita<mailto:abbrown6211 at charter.net>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportationproviders
>
>
> Hello Everyone, I am very interested in reading all of your responses to
> Marion's question. I have applied for my first guide dog an I know that
> once I return home with the dog I will have some walls that I will need to
> bring down. So therefore I am very open to read how all of you react to
> different situations.
>
> Thanks,
> Anita
>
> e-mail: abbrown6211 at charter.net<mailto:abbrown6211 at charter.net>
> facebook.: anitabb1 at facebook.com<mailto:anitabb1 at facebook.com>
> skype: anita.brown27
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net<mailto:blind411 at verizon.net>>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other
> transportationproviders
>
>
> > Dear All,
> > Let me share with you an actual experience I had. I am a professional
> > entertainer, a solo act generally necessitating the use of a cab. Many of
> > the cabbies in my area with the company I usually use, know me and like
> > transporting me because I was a cab driver when I was sighted and going to
> > school. I say this because I know the importance of a good tip. BTW, the
> > word "tip" is actually an acronym that stands for "to insure promptness".
> > One morning after a gig (about 3:00 am) I called for a cab. I did not
> > tell them I had a dog; however, my cell number is associated with my call
> > and there is a file on everyone who calls for a cab with some information,
> > such as the person's name and address. Well, my file apparently indicated
> > that I had a service dog. I waited an unusual length of time for a cab
> > home. When the cabbie arrived, he said he came in from the airport (about
> > 45 minutes from where I was) because no one was bidding on the ride. He
> > told me the dispatcher was asking, "Anyone in zone 58 willing to transport
> > a dog?" The cabbie said he knew it was me and, since no one else bid on
> > it, he knew it was worth the trip in to pick me up.
> > I called the company the following day and filed a complaint with the
> > county Public Transportation Comission, alleging I was discriminated
> > against by the company because my file was flagged as having a service
> > dog, resulting in an unequal benefit. The ADA states
> >
> > "
> > (ii) Participation in unequal benefit. It shall be discriminatory to
> > afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability
> > or disabilities
> >
> > of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing,
> > or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in or benefit
> > from a
> >
> > good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is
> > not equal to that afforded to other individuals." (
> >
> > 42 USC 12182.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Whether the place of public accommodation is a taxicab, hotel, health care
> > facility, restaurant, or any other place, the presence of your service
> > animal is irrelevant. By notifying them in advance that you will be
> > accompanied by a service animal, you passively communicate that this is
> > something they need to know about and, therefore, that there is something
> > they need to do. Not knowing what that "something" might be, they will
> > certainly make something up, setting you up for discrimination.
> > Furthermore, alerting them in advance sends the message that this is
> > proper protocol and, when someone does not provide advance notice, sets up
> > an adversarial situation.
> >
> > I pose the following question on this topic for debate: What is the
> > reason for giving advance notice that you will be accompanied by a service
> > dog? I ask this question in an effort to offer a challenge to this
> > practice. I promise my challenges will be respectful and dignified,
> > definitely not attacking. This is a great issue for lively, respectful
> > debate!
> >
> >
> >
> > Fraternally yours,
> >
> > Marion Gwizdala
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Hingson" <mhingson at sbcglobal.net<mailto:mhingson at sbcglobal.net>>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 7:58 PM
> > Subject: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportation providers
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > I am with Marion on this. Although some may feel that there is no wrong
> > answer I think that at some point we need to take a stand. I personally
> > have found many instances when I gave advanced notification either I had
> > long delays, staff sent a huge van to take me instead of a taxi which in
> > turn caused delays, or other rules about how my dog was suppose to be
> > transported were made up.
> >
> > The law is clear that we and our guides are to be treated the same as any
> > other passenger. There is no excuse for any company providing
> > transportation to the public insisting on advanced notice for our guides.
> > There is no excuse for any such company permitting any of its drivers or
> > pilots to discriminate against us.
> >
> > At the same time I do understand why some on this list take a different
> > tact. While I will not say advanced notice is wrong I would encourage
> > everyone to work toward taking a strong stance. If we do not company
> > personnel will never learn that discriminating against us is wrong.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> > Michael Hingson
> >
> > The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> > "Speaking with Vision"
> > Michael Hingson, President
> > (415) 827-4084
> > info at michaelhingson.com<mailto:info at michaelhingson.com>
> > To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
> > availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com<http://www.michaelhingson.com/>
> > Thunder Dog is now available for early ordering on Amazon!!!
> > http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr<http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr>_
> > 1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr=1-3
> >
> >
> > for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> > http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com<http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com/>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> > Of Marion Gwizdala
> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 4:05 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
> >
> > Gary and all,
> > I generally advise that one not give advance notice that we will be
> > traveling with a guide dog. The presence of the service dog is irrelevant
> > to
> >
> > whether or not they transport you. If the dispatcher broadcasts, "I'm
> > looking for someone willing to take a fare with a dog!" you may wait
> > longer
> > for a ride than if they didn't know. This sets you up for the type of
> > discrimination known as an unequal benefit. I have dealt with several
> > people
> >
> > who gave advance notice and regretted it because of the long wait times.
> > JMHO!
> >
> > Fraternally yours,
> > Marion
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "GARY STEEVES" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca<mailto:rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:13 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Hi:
> >>
> >> Generally, I don't have a problem just telling the company I have a dog
> >> since, if there is the potential for an issue this should remove it. The
> >> issue I have and am going to talk to my current cab company about is that
> >> they have one letter symbols for things. I learned this two weeks ago
> >> when
> >
> >> three trips in a row I got a van cab. I found out that my file had a V
> >> for
> >
> >> van and A for animal. I think they need to add another symbol that
> >> represents service dogs since an animal is a bit vague. I got cabs who
> >> don't mind dogs but sometimes I think they believe it is a pet,
> >> especially
> >
> >> cuz it's a poodle which they never see as guide dogs. Also, being that we
> >> are getting picked up right in front of my house and I've usually just
> >> been walking bogart around the block for his morning relief, he is often
> >> not in harness. the harness is in my hand. However, why I use the same
> >> company all the time is so that many drivers get to know me and often
> >> show
> >
> >> up with the front passenger seat put way forward to
> >> give Bogart more room and cute things like that.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net<mailto:tamara.8024 at comcast.net>>
> >> Date: Friday, July 29, 2011 2:34 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
> >> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>
> >>> Lyn,
> >>>
> >>> Well said. When I lived nearer to downtown, I would just tell the
> >>> dispatcher about the dog, although it seems they do have a note about
> >>> her attached to my number. This actually worked in my favor
> >>> there, where
> >>> you couldn't swing a cat without hitting one of their cabs. Now I'm
> >>> still in the Portland Metro area, but apparently this does not prevent
> >>> me living in the boonies as far as the cab companies are
> >>> concerned. So
> >>> I've learned to just fail to mention anything at all about a dog or
> >>> being blind or anything because that does seem to increase the
> >>> odds a
> >>> cab will get out here eventually. I've tried a couple of other
> >>> companiesthat supposedly serve this area, but... Sigh. Anyway,
> >>> if they want to
> >>> drive all the way out here and then refuse to take my dog, I
> >>> guess I'll
> >>> be putting up a big fuss about that, won't I? /evil grin/
> >>>
> >>> Then again, what with having a private driver and on-demand car
> >>> serviceright here, I guess I won't be giving many cabby's an
> >>> opportunity to
> >>> refuse me a ride because of my dog. Ain't that just too
> >>> bad for
> >>> me. /lol/
> >>>
> >>> Either way, with cabs or hotel reservations or whatever, I tend
> >>> to do
> >>> what I believe is most likely to achieve the best results when
> >>> it comes
> >>> to deciding whether to mention the dog beforehand or not. Which
> >>> does not
> >>> mean I always make the right guess, but I have had few hassles, so
> >>> that's what matters to me. /smile/
> >>>
> >>> Tami
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 12:42 -0700, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
> >>> > I agree with you, Bibi. I will tell the cab dispach that
> >>> I have a guide dog
> >>> > and to just send a driver who has no problem with a dog.
> >>> this way, I get my
> >>> > cab and no BSing with the driver. People do what you
> >>> feel is best for you.
> >>> > There's no right or wrong in this matter.
> >>> >
> >>> > Lyn and Landon
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: "Criminal Justice Major Extraordinaire"
> >>> <orleans24 at comcast.net<mailto:orleans24 at comcast.net>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
> >>> Association of Guide Dog Users"
> >>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> >>> > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:54 PM
> >>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > > Hi, Brenda,
> >>> > > I remember when attending a couple of guide dog schools and
> >>> not hearing
> >>> > > one word or thing mentioned about if being asked by a cab
> >>> driver to put
> >>> > > the dog in a trunk of the car.
> >>> > > Thankfully, I've not had any experiences with that and
> >>> hopefully with my
> >>> > > fourth guide, that won't happen either.
> >>> > > I know many people here won't agree with what I'm about to
> >>> say here, but
> >>> > > here it goes...
> >>> > > There were times I'd just go ahead and let the cab company
> >>> know that I
> >>> > > have a guide dog and it did help and minimize a possible problem.
> >>> > > In the same aspect, I'd get a cab quickly too.
> >>> > > I only would do this during stressful situations to avoid
> >>> getting
> >>> > > frustrated around Odie.
> >>> > > He is one sensitive boy who would pick up on my anxiety
> >>> rather quickly.
> >>> > > If I knew where that dog handler was living here in
> >>> Colorado, I'd gladly
> >>> > > help her out or at least be willing to give her some
> >>> encouragement and
> >>> > > advice on dealing with situations like that.
> >>> > > unfortunately, I have no idea if she lives in Denver or
> >>> another city close
> >>> > > by to me.
> >>> > > If someone told me to put Odie in the trunk, I'd happily say
> >>> right on tthe
> >>> > > spot, "Would you like it if I just rolled you up and stuck
> >>> you in that
> >>> > > area?"
> >>> > > I know. I'm a tough person when it comes to stuff like that.
> >>> > > *Smiles*
> >>> > > Bibi and Odie
> >>> > > the retired one
> >>> > >
> >>> > > _______________________________________________
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> >>> >
> >>> >
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