[nagdu] Success stats

[Tami Kinney]

I live the Navy Seals metaphor. I tend to think of working guides as the
neurosurgeons of the dog world: More highly educated than the vast
majority of their species, and always on call. /smile/  Also, the
education is not only comprehensive and intensive, but extremely
demanding. Naturally, it takes a rare combination of way above average
for a dog to succeed.  Pretty impressive how far above the rest our
guide dogs really are.  Many service dogs are, then there are the guide
*and* service dogs... 

I think of them also, as "the best of the best of the best. Sir!" /lol/
>From the movie Men in Black, if no one recognizes the reference.

Or, "The few, the proud, ..."  /smile/ 

I'm going to start referring my poodle guide as a navy seal and see what
happens. /grin/

On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 15:33 -0600, Jeffrey Young wrote:
> I don't think these numbers are actually as bad as they appear.
> 1. A certain number of dogs go into the breeding program at TSE which accounts for some of the drop off. Also their will be dogs with health problems which makes them unfit for guide work.
> 2. This training they go through is extremely intense. Think about it these dogs are like the navy seals of the dog world. I believe the navy seals have something like way over 50 percent drop out rates.
> A trainer at TSE told me that if a dog successfully makes it through the puppy raising phase that dog has an 80 percent chance or more of either being a breeder or a guide. We can't forget that the breeding is nearly as important as the guide work.
> 
> Also, a dog might seem like it will be an excellent guide and then show some sort of odd behavior that can't be accounted for which disqualifies that dog.
> 
> Jeff and Hansel
> On Jun 24, 2011, at 3:15 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, it does seem startling when you hear it. I think with some breeds
> > the success rates are lower.  Say, with poodles. That may have changed
> > with the programs that now have more experience with the silly creatures
> > since I read that.
> > 
> >> From what I have been able to gather, labs have the highest success rate
> > over the other traditional breeds, so many more labs than others. Also,
> > lab/golden crosses. Can't remember where goldens come in off the top of
> > my head.
> > 
> > Some of the difference in success rates by breed have to do with health
> > problems or with temperament issues that crop up in an established line
> > from breeding trends that pollute the gene pool.  Sigh. I guess it's
> > been a problem with GSDs, and some programs have been able to recover
> > and get their GSD lines back up to snuff by importing breeding stock
> > while others have phased them out.  Well, I know that was a big part of
> > why GDB decided to become a purely lab or lab/golden program not too
> > long ago and just phased out their shepherds. They tried poodles for a
> > few years, but between some health issues in their stock and the poodly
> > temperament in the training environment, they finally determined it
> > wasn't cost effective for them to keep at it.  Which does make sense.
> > 
> > It seems, also, that labs are just easier, both in training and in
> > matching over a variety of potential handlers.  As a rule, they're just
> > so gosh darn calm and steady and ridiculously easy to get along with
> > while still being trainable and well-suited for guide work. Some are a
> > bit slower and more mellow than the norm, so they're better suited for
> > people who need that for whatever reason. Some a perkier and feistier
> > and faster than the norm, so that takes care of your adventure-seeking
> > handlers. /smile/ They seem to have the most important strenghts of the
> > other common breeds without some of the traits only some think of as
> > strengths.  So, better odds of placing more puppies from any given
> > litter of labs than GSDs or other herding/guarding types.  Makes sense,
> > actually, even though I probably don't have the whole picture from the
> > program perspective, especially at a decision-making level.  It's
> > interesting to think about, though.
> > 
> > I wonder if dobies will make a comeback as guide dogs since breeders
> > seem to be doing well at bringing them back to what they were before the
> > tiny head fiasco.  Now I guess collies are having tiny head problems
> > because of breeders who think that's a good idea.  Sigh.  Anyway, I keep
> > meeting dobies with proportional heads and good temperaments and owners
> > who are so happy the breeders got a clue and turned their practices
> > around so that dobies are dobies.  Yay! I'm also noticing more straight
> > GSDs with good temperaments around, too, but the owners tell me you
> > still have to work pretty hard to make sure that's what you get.  Still,
> > progress.  So I also wonder if with more healthy even-tempered stock
> > available in outside breeding stock, programs will start increasing
> > their shepherd lines.  It will be interesting to see.  For me, at
> > least. /smile/
> > 
> > On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 10:58 -0600, Sheila Leigland wrote:
> >> The fifty percent is what I've heard and it seems low to me also. I hope it changes or has changed.
> >> 
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