[nagdu] Local business asks service dog to leave

Thu Mar 3 20:55:05 UTC 2011

Albert,

Yeah, I wonder about that one, too.  With Mitzi and the other guide dogs, it
seems pretty self-evident to me that they are performing tasks they have
been trained to do that go way beyond random behaviors.

But with a medical alert dog, the difference is more subtle, I would think.
If the specific task the dog performs is alerting its handler to a seizure
or blood sugar drop or the like, then reinforcing natural alerting behaviors
would, in my opinion, constitute training.  One would also need to train the
dog in proper manners and socialization for going out in public, as well.
To the casual observer, this wouldn't appear to be anything special, even
though the dog was trained.

If the dog grabs the phone and dials 911 and stuff like that, then that
training is pretty obvious.  But simply alerting the handler of an impending
seizure so that the handler can get to a safe place wouldn't appear
particularly impressive.

It's an interesting subject to think about.  Learning how the law would
apply would require a test case, I suppose.  I know I don't want to
volunteer!

So when I started out with Mitzi, I trained her to point out and/or pick
things up that I had dropped and dubbed her a service dog.  I still had the
loss of function and feeling from the injuries from VR, so this was a very
important thing for me, whether around the house or at the store, where she
kept me from losing cash money on the floor because I didn't know I had
dropped it.

To train her, I used her natural curiosity and theiving abilities to
reinforce the modifications of those natural random behaviors so that they
were useful.  In other words, I praised her when she did it, using the
commands I intended to use for that task.  She's a quick learner, so she was
performing this specifically trained task to mitigate my disability in under
a day, with just minor positive reinforcement needed to keep her doing it.

She still uses those behaviors when I drop things, and I still reward her
for them.  She's even taught Daisy to fill in for her.  /lol/  I don't drop
things all the time anymore and I can find them my ownself fairly easily now
when I do, but there's always a dog to leap into action when a small object
hits the floor.

So we stopped by a casino a couple of weeks ago on our way home from a
family trip.  At one point, Mitzi and I were seeking peace and quiet in a
corner at an unused machine while DD entertained himself on another one...
Mitzi did that quick point with her nose, and I automatically assumed I had
dropped something and reached to pick it up....  It was a pair of glasses
someone else had lost under the chair I was about to sit in!  So we were
able to turn them in to Lost and Found, declaring that Mitzi was a good
citizen and had done her good deed for the day!  I don't' think the person
we handed the glasses to got the humor, but it entertained me and DD and the
dog, so that's what counts.  /smile/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 7:37 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Local business asks service dog to leave

Dear all,
 In this instance it does not appear as though the dog had any formal
training, however, do not negate the truth that many dogs are in fact being
trained and used for alerting individuals to such things as seizure
disorders, diabetic issues, so it is not out of the realm of possibility
that dogs could in fact be trained to detect issues such as the one
presented in this article. However, training would distinguish  pets who are
acting innately  versus some sort of formal training. I wonder. When
compared with the owner trainers on this list how an owner trained alert dog
would fair under the laws?

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:26 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Local business asks service dog to leave

Dear All,
    Another interesting aspect of this article is at the end. The clinic 
director asserts "in a setting surrounded
by doctors, they are simply not needed." Guidance from the CDC specifically 
states, "

Health-care personnel may not exclude a service animal because health-care 
staff may be able to perform the same services that the service animal does 
(e.g., retrieving dropped items and guiding an otherwise ambulatory person 
to the restroom). Similarly, health-care personnel can not exclude service

animals because the health-care staff perceive a lack of need for the 
service animal during the person's stay in the health-care facility. A 
person with a disability is entitled to independent access (i.e., to be 
accompanied by a service animal unless the animal poses a direct threat or a

fundamental alteration in the nature of services); "need" for the animal is 
not a valid factor in either analysis.

If what this article reports, the clinic violated this person's civil rights

under the ADA. Now, if the person chooses to file a complaint against the 
doctor, the person must demonstrate that they are a lperson with a 
disability and then must demonstrate that the dog meets the definition of a 
service animal.

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ginger Kutsch" <gingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 8:55 AM
Subject: [nagdu] Local business asks service dog to leave

> Local business asks service dog to leave
> Reporter - Lauren Adams
> Story Created: Mar 2, 2011 at 4:54 PM CST
>
> PADUCAH - Eric Tabor's small black and tan daschund can fetch and
> even give a high-five.   And there's one other thing that might
> impress you: Georiga even knows how to save her owner's life.
>
>
> Eric Tabor said it all started last year. "She laid her head on
> my shoulder, directly over my heart."
>
> Tabor ignored it but Georgia kept at it.
>
> Eventually, he caved and went to his doctor.  Turns out Tabor had
> an irregular heartbeat and needed a pacemaker.
>
> "She's an amazing little dog," Tabor said.
>
> In the year since, Georgia has not left his side. Tabor also
> suffers from seizures and sleep apnea, which means he can stop
> breathing during his sleep.
>
> Because of her abilties to detect certain health problems and
> alert others when Tabor is in danger, she is now considered a
> service dog.
>
> "They're actually put out by the Department of Justice," Tabor
> said of the tags she wears on a bright pink harness.
>
> He said that tag was all but ignored Tuesday.
>
> "I just know its not right."
>
> He had come to Comprehensive Premier Medicine for a checkup with
> Georgia by his side.
>
> "They told me I could not have her. That it was against their
> health regulations, their laws for the clinic."
>
> But Georgia is covered under Federal Law.  Under the Americans
> With Disabilites Act, "service dogs must be allowed to go
> anywhere their handler goes."
>
> Also under the law, "It is illegal to ask for any special
> identification from Service Dog partners.  Some carry ID cards
> and may present them voluntarily."
>
> Tabor said he tried to present the tag. Even still, he was asked
> to take Georgia elsewhere.
>
> On Wednesday, the clinic defended their decision, saying the dog
> posed a health risk to other patients.
>
> Tabor said the biggest risk is not having Georgia.
>
> "It's a security thing. I need her."
>
> Tabor, as it turns out, is moving to South Carolina next week and
> it is likely he will not even be back to the clinic in question.
> But he wanted to change things for other people with service
> animals.
>
> Clinic owner Dr. Robert Meriwether said he regrets upsetting
> Tabor but stands by his decision.  He said he understands the
> importance of service animals but added in a setting surrounded
> by doctors, they are simply not needed.
>
> So, what do you think? Should Tabor get to keep Georgia with him,
> even at the clinic? Or was the clinic right to refuse? Join the
> conversation below.
>
> Kelley Wiseman7:17 am
> Absolutley Yes!!!! They cannot legally be refused. Can you say
> big time lawsuit that a dead ringer win....or at least I would if
> I was him
> Message
> Martha Stamper5:58 am
> Yes Tabor should have been allowed to have the dog with him at
> anytime and anywhere. The Clinic was wrong and should be taken to
> court over the matter since the dog was legal to have with the
> man under Federal Law.Dr. Meriwether should be brought up for
> violation of the mans rights under Federal law. This dog did not
> cause any health risk to other patients, just the opposite would
> have been experienced since patient jitters before seeing the
> doctor may have been reduced by the presents of the dog. How mean
> of this so-called doctor! The clinic should be shut down if no
> more care about patients is shown than this!
> Message
> Elaine Lake1:20 am
> As others have said, the DOJ does not put out any type of service
> animal tags PERIOD!
> The doctor cannot make up his own rules for his clinic. I do not
> think that Dr. Merriweather is going to help with my wheelchair
> movement, pick up items that I drop, help with my transfer from
> my wheelchair to the toilet or any of the other tasks that my
> service dog does. Also service animals can be medical alert dogs
> and alerting to a medical condition is not normally a trained
> task. As Mr. Tabor stated, Georgia does alert and respond to his
> sleep apnea and his seizures. That makes her a service dog under
> the law provided Mr. Tabor is considered disabled by the ADA
> definition.
> Message
> Steffeny Muller12:42 am
> Service Dogs have to be specifically task trained to mitigate a
> disability. Alerting to a problem is not considered a task. High
> fives are not condiered a task to mitigate a disability. It seems
> that she may be a good dog to have around, but there is nothing
> she is trained to do to help Mr. Tabor. Therefore she is not a
> Service Dog and not covered by he ADA. By the Way, the DOJ does
> not put out any sort of tag, patch or other certifications for
> Service dogs. Please people do the research!
> Message
> Erica RodmanMar 2
> "They're actually put out by the Department of Justice," Tabor
> said of the tags she wears on a bright pink harness.
>
> I really wish people would fact-check. The DOJ does not issue any
> sort of "tag" for service dogs.
> Message
> Bethany McCartyMar 2
> That's crazy - the dog should have been allowed regardless!
> Message
> Francine JohnsonMar 2
> The Justice Department most certainly DOES NOT put out tags for
> service dogs, and to report as such is irresponsible journalism.
> Message
> Mandy BrianMar 2
> Service animals are those for a reason and yes they should
> definitely be allowed anywhere and everywhere. If the owner's
> didn't have to have them then they wouldn't be considered service
> animals.
> Message
> Mike SpencerMar 2
> "Their Health Regulations"? Their Laws"? Sorry Dr. Meriweather.
> You can't make laws concerning service animals. The dog was
> probably cleaner than half of your patients. Maybe you could
> avoided all this and rushed Mr. Tabor's appointment and got him
> out of there and everybody would be happy.
> Message
> Dwain H KochMar 2
> As a disabled person, I find the clinics actions highly
> offensive. Someone coming to the clinic with a cold has a greater
> chance of causing an infection than this service dog.
> Message
> Pj Horst McconougheyMar 2
> I can't choose sides as once again there are two views, neither
> one of them totally right or wrong. If she is indeed a service
> dog and indeed goes with Mr Tabor everywhere then the doctor
> appears to have made a wrong choice. One does have to wonder what
> would he have done with a seeing eye dog or a dog for the deaf.
> Bud do I think he did it to hurt anyone? No I don't. The doctor
> made a decision to protect all of his patients including Mr
> Tabor. A question also must be asked is this the first time this
> has happened. Has it happened in other clinics? How does a clinic
> handle the service dog and their other patients? How can this
> problem be remedied? What can the doctor/clinic and the service
> dog owner do to alleviate this problem for I really doubt this is
> the first time for this and if it is it probably won't be the
> last unless something is done.
> Message
> Vickie BryanMar 2
> I think that it was wrong. If Mr Tabor had been blind and Georgia
> had been a seeing eye dog, would the clinic have asked him to
> leave?
> Message
> Wanda Donson HallMar 2
> I think Mr. Tabor should file a complaint with the ACLU. The
> doctor's opinion about whether the service dog was needed or not
> does not matter. The law is very clear & the doctor clearly broke
> the law - he should be held accountable. What if Mr. Tabor had
> been blind & his dog was a seeing-eye dog - would Dr. Meriwether
> have refused to allow the dog in his clinic? The only difference
> between a service dog & a seeing-eye dog is the services they
> perform. SHAME ON DR. MERIWETHER!!!
> Message
>
>
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