[nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program

Tue May 3 18:29:41 UTC 2011

you probably did hear it, but you can train your dog to do what ever you 
want them to do.  You have already learned the tools to do it.  GEB isn't 
going to stop you.  They know we train them to do things that we need them 
to do for us.  At least they know I do!  Some trainers have their own ideas. 
I think it is not encouraged fresh out of training because then the dog 
thinks it doesn't have to work any more.  They will lose their own 
initiative and forget their skills of being a guide.  It wouldn't be a 
command that you want to use every day all day long.  I think if the dog 
just followed someone all the time, it would become unsafe and useless as a 
guide dog.  At that point GEB could help you to determine if the dog could 
be retrain or if it is best to retire it.
Julie Phillipson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program


>
>
> Julie, Hey, thanks for the correction. I swear I heard otherwise. Guess 
> I'll double check my class notes. Please contact me off line any time you 
> have GEB related knowledge that you think will be useful to me and Bernie. 
> Again, thanks.
>
> Lisa and Bernie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>
>
>> well Lisa they teach you how to teach your dog new commands and I worked 
>> with Graham last week teaching my dog the follow command at Guiding Eyes, 
>> so they don't say you can't just be sure they are following the right 
>> person and not just some random person.  I have taught all of my dogs to 
>> follow as well as a few other commands that they did not learn at GEB.
>>
>> Julie Phillipson
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steven Johnson" <blinddog3 at charter.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 6:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>>
>>
>>> Leader does the same, and no confusion.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Lyn Gwizdak
>>> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 4:22 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>>>
>>> To avoid confusion, the dog needs to learn that when you tell it to 
>>> follow
>>> someone, you want him to follow that person.  He should learn that he 
>>> isn't
>>> to randomly follow people if there is no command from you.
>>>
>>> Seeing Eye still teaches "Follow" and the dogs have no confusion.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 7:30 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>>>
>>>
>>>> The follow command sounds beneficial. Guiding Eyes discourages the dogs
>>>> from following some one in a store.If I've got it right, the person
>>>> guiding us through the restaurant or store is supposed to walk be hind 
>>>> us
>>>> and tell us which way to go. Personally, I find this confusing and
>>>> frustrating.
>>>>
>>>> Bernie and  I went to the very crowded and noisy winter pops. I tried 
>>>> the
>>>> walk behind me and let me know which way we're going. Bernie was ready 
>>>> to
>>>> blow through the masses. I opted instead to heal Bernie. Even in the
>>>> grocery store, it's almost easier to heal my dog and place my hand on 
>>>> the
>>>> shopping cart instead of trying to do it the other way.  The school's
>>>> rational makes sense to me. They contend telling your dog to follow and
>>>> then reprimanding him for following another person at another time is
>>>> confusing to the dog. What do you guys think?
>>>>
>>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 2:45 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Carin,
>>>>> I've known several people who got dogs at Pilot.  They went during the
>>>>> 80s and 90s and they had traffic training and their dogs worked fine 
>>>>> as
>>>>> far as I could see.  What I did hear is that they don't teach the
>>>>> "Follow" command. I have since heard that other schools aren't 
>>>>> teaching
>>>>> the "Follow" command either.
>>>>>
>>>>> To me, the "Follow" command is a very good one that I use all the time
>>>>> when I'm in a store or just out and about with other guide dog users 
>>>>> and
>>>>> I don't know the route - usually inside a mall or store.  Out on the
>>>>> street, I use the regular guide commands.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Karen Alexander" <kalex710 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Grave problems with Pilot Dogs program
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I spoke with Alec a member of Nagdu and a guide dog handler. I found 
>>>>>>out
>>>>>> that Pilot Dogs train their dogs for only three months. It seems that
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are not thoroughly trained with traffic, etc. I am just in the 
>>>>>> beginning
>>>>>> state of choosing an organization.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could used input from anyone on this list regarding Pilot Dogs both
>>>>>> positive and negative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a grave concern to me to be given a dog who could put both of 
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> harms way. How can a service dog organization not be called out for
>>>>>> unsafe
>>>>>> dogs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The newbie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karen Alexander
>>>>>>
>>>>>> home:    330 864 8351
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mobile:  330 715 4690
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 710 White Pond Dr #705
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Akron, Ohio 44320
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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