[nagdu] Considering Options WASRe: Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened

Julie J. julielj at neb.rr.com
Fri Nov 4 13:31:05 UTC 2011 

Tami,
Yes, the broken crystal ball says your next dog will be a mangy mutt!

Maybe a new hairdo would help in the meantime?  Maybe straighten it and 
pull it back into a bun really severely?  Perhaps some clothes from the 
military surplus store, like that camouflage stuff and some really 
clunky boots.  Oh and a T-shirt that says, "Don't mess with the dog, I 
bite."  ROFLOL
Okay, maybe not.

Sometime I'd love to come visit.  It would be most interesting to switch 
dogs and see who gets approached more by the nutty people.  *smile*  Is 
it the person or the dog that attracts more of the drive by petting and 
attention?  Probably it's a combination of both, I'd guess.

Julie

On 11/3/2011 11:52 AM, Tami Kinney wrote:
> Julie,
>
> Yeah, it's a lot more fun pondering options when they're a long way 
> off. Let me know when you find that crystal ball repair shop... /grin/
>
> I dunno if it is thatShirley Temple thing I have going on -- which 
> does seem to be the only explanation for why I am the most 
> approachable human in the universe -- or that the friendliness of our 
> Portland culture leads to porosity of personal barriers moreso than in 
> more reserved cultures, but... People here in general will stop at the 
> curb for the light beside other people in general and say amazing 
> things at random. If one of the people in general has a white cane or 
> a black poodle guide, that is noteworthy and so is noted and becomes 
> the focus of general conversation until the light changes. /lol/ If 
> the person with white cane or black poodle happens to look like 
> Shirley Temple -- or moreso a combination of each and every precosious 
> tap-dancing character she played as a tot... Used to be people would 
> just approach me in the middle of a crowd or anywhere else I happened 
> to be minding my own business looking like I might break into song and 
> dance at any instant and tell me their life stories, medical issues, 
> psychiatric progress and counseling sessions, the grandkids, their 19 
> children starting from back in the first Great Depression... I still 
> get this sometimes when the Shirley Temple effect is greater than the 
> white cane/black poodle effect, but... Let's just say I don't have to 
> go looking for people to tell me all about my blindness, my career 
> options, what I should do, what my guide dog is really like and what 
> her real function is and... You name it. /lol/ Maybe that's why I can 
> take all the attention my dog gets and how many people know her name 
> and not mine and all of that in stride. It's kind of a relif, although 
> being a geeky sidekick and mouthpiece to a poodle feels a bit funky 
> sometimes. /grin/
>
> I wonder sometimes if that's why I have been and remain more likely 
> than others to make note of the, er, inconsistencies the VR agency lot 
> refers to as "helping The Blind." When the average Man on the Street, 
> along with every other sort of person on the street (some of whom are 
> being hunted by the CIA and other shadowy organizations for what they 
> know about aliens and JFK) makes more sense than all those Trained 
> Social Workers with 30 Years' Experience Helping The Blind, you gotta 
> wonder why anyone would take anything they say seriously... Let alone 
> accept it and apply it to one's own life and self. Sigh.
>
> All I have to do is walk in the door there, careful to keep my back to 
> the wall and my ears tuned in to all frequencies, to learn that my 
> black poodle in her red or purple harness is such a Sweet Friend Who 
> Helps Me with The Loneliness and Isolation. Um... Also, the 
> Depression. While I find myself torn between the strong desire to keep 
> that wall at my back and the need to get their hands off my dog! Once 
> I manage to make my escape, having not seemed to get what they seemed 
> to be promising I would get for going there, I am always relieved to 
> return to my sad and lonely life of being chatted up by every person I 
> encounter on the way home. /lol/ For someone who is as lonely and 
> isolated as I am, except for my Sweet Friend, I sure do have a lot of 
> Best Friends I will never meet again every time I walk out the dor.
>
> Does your crystal ball happen to show you an uggly, vicious-looking 
> scurvy cur as my future guide? /lol/
>
> Tami
>
> On 11/02/2011 06:02 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>> Tami,
>>
>> Mostly I don't bother explaining to people why I owner train. It does
>> come up from time to time though. Generally I tell them that I owner
>> train because I wanted to. I haven't yet had someone come up with some
>> counter to that! *smile*
>>
>> As for home training...it depends on the program. Some are more
>> comfortable with the concept of owner training and offer home training
>> more freely. Shoot for that sort if you're wanting home training from a
>> program next time around. Other programs only offer home training in
>> very specific situations of which I have not been able to determine.
>> They tell me it's on a case by case basis when I've asked. I think it's
>> possible to get owner training as a first time program handler, you will
>> just have to explain your situation and advocate for yourself. At least
>> that is my impression from the inquiries I've made. I hope it remains
>> that way when I'm ready for my next dog.
>>
>> Today I'm leaning toward a program for my next dog. That is a long way
>> off and much will have changed by then. So who knows? I change my mind
>> about every other week! LOL Also Kiddo will be out of school by then,
>> depending on my work situation I may be able to swing going away. I
>> don't know, my crystal ball is broken! *smile* I like pondering the
>> options though.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/1/2011 9:07 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>>> Julie,
>>>
>>> Yeah, and how successful have you ever been at explaining to anyone
>>> how it is that you owner-trained because you didn't have time to go
>>> off to guide dog school for a month? /lol/ I never have managed to do
>>> it, so I'm curious if you have. /lol/
>>>
>>> Well, when I do end up going through a program, then time away from
>>> work, life, the old age home, whatever, will be a factor in choosing a
>>> school. And it is something to work out. But I'm not sure how much of
>>> a sticking point it would be, either. I can see how valuable the 4
>>> week program would be for learning as much as possible. Still, I would
>>> prefer home training, but I don't know if I would be unqualified
>>> because I would be a first-timer due to having owner-trained... I
>>> figure I'll find out one of these days. /grin/
>>>
>>> On 10/31/2011 02:04 PM, Julie J. wrote:
>>>> William,
>>>>
>>>> Honestly I am baffled at what uproar you are speaking of? I've seen a
>>>> lot of uproar on this list over the years. the current discussion 
>>>> hasn't
>>>> even left the realm of pleasant conversation.
>>>>
>>>> I think when people speak of taking off extended time from work, they
>>>> are not speaking specifically of TSE, but generally about all guide 
>>>> dog
>>>> schools. With the exception of GDB and the few programs that offer 
>>>> home
>>>> training, it is quite a large chunk of time off of work to attend a
>>>> guide dog program. Sure there is a bit of variety in exactly how many
>>>> days, but not by much.
>>>>
>>>> One of the reasons I have not attended a guide dog program is the 
>>>> length
>>>> of time necessary away from my responsibilities at home. Certainly
>>>> when/if I attend a guide dog program the time away will be a major
>>>> factor in my decision. Home training is only offered at a very few
>>>> programs for first time students. Of the programs that do offer home
>>>> training, many have specific requirements that you must meet, meaning
>>>> they do not offer home training just because you want it.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/2011 3:01 PM, William Burley wrote:
>>>>> Hi Tracy.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don't see where there is disagreement. What I said is 
>>>>> that for
>>>>> those who have work issues, they can request home training. This is
>>>>> not a
>>>>> difficult proposition to request through SE. No matter the
>>>>> timeframe, the
>>>>> option is there so I am still a little baffled at why folks are in 
>>>>> what
>>>>> appears to be dire straits about this change.
>>>>>
>>>>> We also both agree that it's not the end of the world. So I 
>>>>> pleasantly
>>>>> disagree about us disagreeing *smile*
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just a bit confused as to why people are creating all these dire
>>>>> options
>>>>> when they haven't even gotten the full scoop from SE.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I doubt SE is doing things exactly as they did even 10 years
>>>>> ago. As
>>>>> long as it is not detrimental to the training experience and other
>>>>> personal
>>>>> factors, I don't see what the uproar is. And I'm not directing 
>>>>> that at
>>>>> you.
>>>>> I'm speaking of the arguments themselves with lack of accompanying
>>>>> facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> William Burley
>>>>> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant 
>>>>> services!
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow Burley-Wilson& Associates, L.L.C.
>>>>>
>>>>> Facebook: www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>> Twitter: www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>> Blog: www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
>>>>> Skype: BurleyWilson
>>>>>
>>>>> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 1:06 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi William.
>>>>> I disagree. Getting back on a Tuesday instead of a Thursday would
>>>>> make a
>>>>> difference to me. On Tuesday, I'd probably work the rest of the
>>>>> week. On
>>>>> Thursday, I'd probably figure the week was already lost, so I'd take
>>>>> Friday as well.
>>>>> Not the end of my world either way, but I expect my boss would rather
>>>>> have
>>>>> those 3 extra days from me than not.
>>>>>
>>>>> And if I had the bad luck to not have a dog work out, and have to go
>>>>> back
>>>>> way too soon, I think I'd work hard to get home training. 3 weeks off
>>>>> every 8 or 9 years is workable. Twice in a year or two I think would
>>>>> be a
>>>>> problem.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am really enjoying this conversation and it reminds me that
>>>>>> change is
>>>>>> something that comes with great difficulty in most instances.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I understand the discussions about the impact of training with
>>>>>> a new
>>>>>> guide as it relates to career, I am finding it hard to 
>>>>>> rationalize how
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> home on a Tuesday rather than Thursday, in the case of the Seeing 
>>>>>> Eye
>>>>>> training schedule, will make much difference. If you move the two 
>>>>>> days
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> the end, that will be toward the end of your training and you still
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> missed a substantial amount of work. I would find it a little
>>>>>> unrealistic
>>>>>> to think if that employer did decide to allow you to go to training
>>>>>> that a
>>>>>> two day earlier return would be the determining factor in whether 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> keep
>>>>>> your job or not. If it were to that point, you would know it before
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to training in the first place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please, please note that when I say you I am using it in the general
>>>>>> sense.
>>>>>> I don't want anyone thinking I am singling them out because I am 
>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just think the issues that are being raised are easily dealt 
>>>>>> with by
>>>>>> talking with both your employer and the Seeing Eye...especially 
>>>>>> since
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> offer home training. There are options other than always taking a
>>>>>> month
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> from work...or as a retrain, 18 days with the new schedule.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> William Burley
>>>>>> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant
>>>>>> services!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow Burley-Wilson& Associates, L.L.C.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Facebook: www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>>> Twitter: www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>>> Blog: www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
>>>>>> Skype: BurleyWilson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:53 AM
>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>>> Users'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly. I could probably be away from work for a month, I did it
>>>>>> when I
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> my daughter. Still, I do need to ask myself from a career
>>>>>> perspective if
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> is worth doing to get a guide dog. And the answer is that while I
>>>>>> did it
>>>>>> once, I'm not sure I'd do it again. A month is a long time. I worry
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> the impact on my career should I have a match not work out or the 
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> able to work soon after coming home.
>>>>>> I had to sell my work on why and how a dog would help me be a more
>>>>>> effective
>>>>>> employee. It was very stressful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Likewise, everybody understands having a baby, though I did see some
>>>>>> disparty in that v. what my male coworkers are asked, mostly I was
>>>>>> asked
>>>>>> repeatedly when I would "go on maternity leave". I pointed out that
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> don't ask the guys when they will have heart attack, break bones,
>>>>>> roll off
>>>>>> their bikes, and that they would deal with it just fine when I 
>>>>>> called
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> said "I'm taking leave now".
>>>>>> I think some of this is a disparty in the same process fits many
>>>>>> people,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> people get bogged in who v. what and that muddies things.
>>>>>> I also know that I couldn't be away from my daughter for a month. 
>>>>>> She
>>>>>> needs
>>>>>> me in a way work never has.
>>>>>> I am not yet ready for another dog. I don't know when or if I will
>>>>>> be. I
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> know that the being away from home leans me toward the "no" side of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> house.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Shannon L. Dillon
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:35 PM
>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with taking less time out of the work week for training and
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> providing in-home schedules for students. We need to continue to
>>>>>> remind
>>>>>> schools how important those alternatives are to us so that we can
>>>>>> have our
>>>>>> guide dogs but maintain employment and families.
>>>>>> SHANNON L. DILLON
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:02:41 -0400
>>>>>>> From: carcione at access.net
>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Sam.
>>>>>>> If you're so moved, you might write to TSE and tell them how you
>>>>>>> feel. I
>>>>>>> wrote to gradservices, myself. I've heard of instances before when
>>>>>>> TSE
>>>>>>> changed things because graduates spoke up.
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>> I agree. It makes sense to leave a few days early, as that 
>>>>>>>> would put
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> close to the begining of a work week. I thought about posting
>>>>>>>> that on
>>>>>>>> the TSE list, but let's just say that things are at the point 
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>> not willing to get in the middle of these arguments. Based on how
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> are going with everything on there, I figure it is better to stay
>>>>>> neutral.
>>>>>>>> On 10/30/2011 10:23 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I'm glad class is a little shorter, but I'm a bit annoyed that 
>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> weekend they've cut off. For me, arranging time off work is the
>>>>>>> hardest
>>>>>>>>> part of getting ready for class. I would be a lot happier if 
>>>>>>>>> they'd
>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>> on Saturday and drop a couple workdays at the end. Am I the only
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> who feels this way?
>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think that there is just a little less down time. That was the
>>>>>> length
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> my last class; I thought it was more challenging, or 
>>>>>>>>>> invigorating.
>>>>>>>>>> CL
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Jewel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What effect, if any, will this have on the training 
>>>>>>>>>>> sessions? It
>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>>> it gives people less time to get acclimated to the area, but do
>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> need that extra time?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Curious,
>>>>>>>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/29/11, Margo and Arrow<margo.downey at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "The Seeing Eye, Inc."<noreply at seeingeye.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Margo Downey"<margo.downey at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 2:11 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Graduates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> At The Seeing Eye, we've always been committed to serving our
>>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the best way possible. Over the years, many students have
>>>>>>>>>>>> asked if
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> be possible to have a shorter stay here in order to return to
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> friends,
>>>>>>>>>>>> families, and jobs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In response, we've streamlined our training process in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> order to
>>>>>> allow
>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>> students to get home as quickly as possible. Starting with our
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>>>>> in January, we will be able to reduce the time students 
>>>>>>>>>>>> spend on
>>>>>>>>>>>> campus
>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>> two days. Instead of arriving Saturday, students will now 
>>>>>>>>>>>> arrive
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> Monday.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This will enable you to return home in two fewer days -
>>>>>>>>>>>> retraining
>>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>> will stay for 18 days, and new students for 25 days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Information on the updated class dates for 2012 can be 
>>>>>>>>>>>> found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.SeeingEye.org/Schedule
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> David Johnson
>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of Instruction& Training
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This message was sent to margo.downey at verizon.net by
>>>>>>>>>>>> noreply at seeingeye.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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