[nagdu] Considering Options WASRe: Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened

Tami Kinney tamara.8024 at comcast.net
Fri Nov 4 15:49:55 UTC 2011


Julie,

Yay! Let's do that! It would be, like, the best sociology experiment 
ever! /lol/

When I first started traveling about with my cane, right after I moved 
to Portland, I would travel the routes I was beginning to learn and use 
while changing just one variable in my expression or dress to see if 
that affected what I heard from all the other people around me along 
those routes. What a kick! My conclusion is that the most approachable 
way for a blind cane user to walk is to wear sunglasses and smoke a 
cigarette. /lol/ Well, I think the cigarette changed my way of walking 
as well, since the thing itself distracted some of my attention away 
form rigid attention to the mechanics of cane travel. So that may have 
been why more people would approach me in a more respectful manner more 
than the presence of a cigarette. Or it could be that the cigarette was 
the bridge between the blind world and sighted world to the people who 
would talk to me like I was just human. I never quite worked out how 
that went. But out was really noticeable. Funny, what?

I would love to try hoofing it around her with a big black boxer guide, 
just to see what happens! Now that there are getting to be more poodle 
and doodle guides about, I'm finding they do seem to be more noteworthy 
than the good old-fashioned labs and shepherds. Every now and then the 
local list traffic will be all about finding which poodle or doodle user 
-- or which couple with doodles -- was the focus of all the reports of 
doodle or poodle sightings all the other guide dog users have been 
hearing about when they are traveling around the same general area. 
/lol/ So I sometimes hear of a poodle or doodle guide someone saw all 
the way over in whichever part of town, so then the person reporting the 
sighting is all excited because they have a whole list of questions 
about poodles they've been dying to ask someone.  /lol/ Only there's a 
super-striking shepherd guide in my town, and she guides her human 
around a lot of our same shopping and banking venues... We never 
encounter each other, probably because of differing schedules. Still, 
that dog is gorgeous and really, really striking because her coat and 
markings aren't the traditional shepherd style. Still, if that pair is 
ever mentioned, it's only as one of those guide dog teams someone thinks 
they might have seen going around and about so there must be other guide 
dog users here... They did see a poodle guide way over in whichever part 
of the metro area they saw it and it was so this and so that  and... 
Strange, huh?

It's a switch from when I had almost the only other poodle guide in the 
whole area. /lol/ There was another one, apparently, up across the 
river, buso far enough that I guess they weren't sighted by the same 
people who sighted us. /lol/

My neighbor kid used to want to give Mitzi a mohawk and dye it 
creatively back when I was living in my old neighborhood. Don't tell, 
but I was secretly tempted, just to see what would happen when we walked 
around the neighborhood. /lol/

Tami

On 11/04/2011 06:31 AM, Julie J. wrote:
> Tami,
> Yes, the broken crystal ball says your next dog will be a mangy mutt!
>
> Maybe a new hairdo would help in the meantime? Maybe straighten it and
> pull it back into a bun really severely? Perhaps some clothes from the
> military surplus store, like that camouflage stuff and some really
> clunky boots. Oh and a T-shirt that says, "Don't mess with the dog, I
> bite." ROFLOL
> Okay, maybe not.
>
> Sometime I'd love to come visit. It would be most interesting to switch
> dogs and see who gets approached more by the nutty people. *smile* Is it
> the person or the dog that attracts more of the drive by petting and
> attention? Probably it's a combination of both, I'd guess.
>
> Julie
>
> On 11/3/2011 11:52 AM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>> Julie,
>>
>> Yeah, it's a lot more fun pondering options when they're a long way
>> off. Let me know when you find that crystal ball repair shop... /grin/
>>
>> I dunno if it is thatShirley Temple thing I have going on -- which
>> does seem to be the only explanation for why I am the most
>> approachable human in the universe -- or that the friendliness of our
>> Portland culture leads to porosity of personal barriers moreso than in
>> more reserved cultures, but... People here in general will stop at the
>> curb for the light beside other people in general and say amazing
>> things at random. If one of the people in general has a white cane or
>> a black poodle guide, that is noteworthy and so is noted and becomes
>> the focus of general conversation until the light changes. /lol/ If
>> the person with white cane or black poodle happens to look like
>> Shirley Temple -- or moreso a combination of each and every precosious
>> tap-dancing character she played as a tot... Used to be people would
>> just approach me in the middle of a crowd or anywhere else I happened
>> to be minding my own business looking like I might break into song and
>> dance at any instant and tell me their life stories, medical issues,
>> psychiatric progress and counseling sessions, the grandkids, their 19
>> children starting from back in the first Great Depression... I still
>> get this sometimes when the Shirley Temple effect is greater than the
>> white cane/black poodle effect, but... Let's just say I don't have to
>> go looking for people to tell me all about my blindness, my career
>> options, what I should do, what my guide dog is really like and what
>> her real function is and... You name it. /lol/ Maybe that's why I can
>> take all the attention my dog gets and how many people know her name
>> and not mine and all of that in stride. It's kind of a relif, although
>> being a geeky sidekick and mouthpiece to a poodle feels a bit funky
>> sometimes. /grin/
>>
>> I wonder sometimes if that's why I have been and remain more likely
>> than others to make note of the, er, inconsistencies the VR agency lot
>> refers to as "helping The Blind." When the average Man on the Street,
>> along with every other sort of person on the street (some of whom are
>> being hunted by the CIA and other shadowy organizations for what they
>> know about aliens and JFK) makes more sense than all those Trained
>> Social Workers with 30 Years' Experience Helping The Blind, you gotta
>> wonder why anyone would take anything they say seriously... Let alone
>> accept it and apply it to one's own life and self. Sigh.
>>
>> All I have to do is walk in the door there, careful to keep my back to
>> the wall and my ears tuned in to all frequencies, to learn that my
>> black poodle in her red or purple harness is such a Sweet Friend Who
>> Helps Me with The Loneliness and Isolation. Um... Also, the
>> Depression. While I find myself torn between the strong desire to keep
>> that wall at my back and the need to get their hands off my dog! Once
>> I manage to make my escape, having not seemed to get what they seemed
>> to be promising I would get for going there, I am always relieved to
>> return to my sad and lonely life of being chatted up by every person I
>> encounter on the way home. /lol/ For someone who is as lonely and
>> isolated as I am, except for my Sweet Friend, I sure do have a lot of
>> Best Friends I will never meet again every time I walk out the dor.
>>
>> Does your crystal ball happen to show you an uggly, vicious-looking
>> scurvy cur as my future guide? /lol/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 11/02/2011 06:02 AM, Julie J. wrote:
>>> Tami,
>>>
>>> Mostly I don't bother explaining to people why I owner train. It does
>>> come up from time to time though. Generally I tell them that I owner
>>> train because I wanted to. I haven't yet had someone come up with some
>>> counter to that! *smile*
>>>
>>> As for home training...it depends on the program. Some are more
>>> comfortable with the concept of owner training and offer home training
>>> more freely. Shoot for that sort if you're wanting home training from a
>>> program next time around. Other programs only offer home training in
>>> very specific situations of which I have not been able to determine.
>>> They tell me it's on a case by case basis when I've asked. I think it's
>>> possible to get owner training as a first time program handler, you will
>>> just have to explain your situation and advocate for yourself. At least
>>> that is my impression from the inquiries I've made. I hope it remains
>>> that way when I'm ready for my next dog.
>>>
>>> Today I'm leaning toward a program for my next dog. That is a long way
>>> off and much will have changed by then. So who knows? I change my mind
>>> about every other week! LOL Also Kiddo will be out of school by then,
>>> depending on my work situation I may be able to swing going away. I
>>> don't know, my crystal ball is broken! *smile* I like pondering the
>>> options though.
>>>
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/1/2011 9:07 PM, Tami Kinney wrote:
>>>> Julie,
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, and how successful have you ever been at explaining to anyone
>>>> how it is that you owner-trained because you didn't have time to go
>>>> off to guide dog school for a month? /lol/ I never have managed to do
>>>> it, so I'm curious if you have. /lol/
>>>>
>>>> Well, when I do end up going through a program, then time away from
>>>> work, life, the old age home, whatever, will be a factor in choosing a
>>>> school. And it is something to work out. But I'm not sure how much of
>>>> a sticking point it would be, either. I can see how valuable the 4
>>>> week program would be for learning as much as possible. Still, I would
>>>> prefer home training, but I don't know if I would be unqualified
>>>> because I would be a first-timer due to having owner-trained... I
>>>> figure I'll find out one of these days. /grin/
>>>>
>>>> On 10/31/2011 02:04 PM, Julie J. wrote:
>>>>> William,
>>>>>
>>>>> Honestly I am baffled at what uproar you are speaking of? I've seen a
>>>>> lot of uproar on this list over the years. the current discussion
>>>>> hasn't
>>>>> even left the realm of pleasant conversation.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think when people speak of taking off extended time from work, they
>>>>> are not speaking specifically of TSE, but generally about all guide
>>>>> dog
>>>>> schools. With the exception of GDB and the few programs that offer
>>>>> home
>>>>> training, it is quite a large chunk of time off of work to attend a
>>>>> guide dog program. Sure there is a bit of variety in exactly how many
>>>>> days, but not by much.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the reasons I have not attended a guide dog program is the
>>>>> length
>>>>> of time necessary away from my responsibilities at home. Certainly
>>>>> when/if I attend a guide dog program the time away will be a major
>>>>> factor in my decision. Home training is only offered at a very few
>>>>> programs for first time students. Of the programs that do offer home
>>>>> training, many have specific requirements that you must meet, meaning
>>>>> they do not offer home training just because you want it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/31/2011 3:01 PM, William Burley wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Tracy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I really don't see where there is disagreement. What I said is
>>>>>> that for
>>>>>> those who have work issues, they can request home training. This is
>>>>>> not a
>>>>>> difficult proposition to request through SE. No matter the
>>>>>> timeframe, the
>>>>>> option is there so I am still a little baffled at why folks are in
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> appears to be dire straits about this change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also both agree that it's not the end of the world. So I
>>>>>> pleasantly
>>>>>> disagree about us disagreeing *smile*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm just a bit confused as to why people are creating all these dire
>>>>>> options
>>>>>> when they haven't even gotten the full scoop from SE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, I doubt SE is doing things exactly as they did even 10 years
>>>>>> ago. As
>>>>>> long as it is not detrimental to the training experience and other
>>>>>> personal
>>>>>> factors, I don't see what the uproar is. And I'm not directing
>>>>>> that at
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>> I'm speaking of the arguments themselves with lack of accompanying
>>>>>> facts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> William Burley
>>>>>> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant
>>>>>> services!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow Burley-Wilson& Associates, L.L.C.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Facebook: www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>>> Twitter: www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>>> Blog: www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
>>>>>> Skype: BurleyWilson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 1:06 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi William.
>>>>>> I disagree. Getting back on a Tuesday instead of a Thursday would
>>>>>> make a
>>>>>> difference to me. On Tuesday, I'd probably work the rest of the
>>>>>> week. On
>>>>>> Thursday, I'd probably figure the week was already lost, so I'd take
>>>>>> Friday as well.
>>>>>> Not the end of my world either way, but I expect my boss would rather
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> those 3 extra days from me than not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And if I had the bad luck to not have a dog work out, and have to go
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> way too soon, I think I'd work hard to get home training. 3 weeks off
>>>>>> every 8 or 9 years is workable. Twice in a year or two I think would
>>>>>> be a
>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am really enjoying this conversation and it reminds me that
>>>>>>> change is
>>>>>>> something that comes with great difficulty in most instances.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While I understand the discussions about the impact of training with
>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>>> guide as it relates to career, I am finding it hard to
>>>>>>> rationalize how
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> home on a Tuesday rather than Thursday, in the case of the Seeing
>>>>>>> Eye
>>>>>>> training schedule, will make much difference. If you move the two
>>>>>>> days
>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>> the end, that will be toward the end of your training and you still
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> missed a substantial amount of work. I would find it a little
>>>>>>> unrealistic
>>>>>>> to think if that employer did decide to allow you to go to training
>>>>>>> that a
>>>>>>> two day earlier return would be the determining factor in whether
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>> your job or not. If it were to that point, you would know it before
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to training in the first place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please, please note that when I say you I am using it in the general
>>>>>>> sense.
>>>>>>> I don't want anyone thinking I am singling them out because I am
>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just think the issues that are being raised are easily dealt
>>>>>>> with by
>>>>>>> talking with both your employer and the Seeing Eye...especially
>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> offer home training. There are options other than always taking a
>>>>>>> month
>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>> from work...or as a retrain, 18 days with the new schedule.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> William Burley
>>>>>>> William.burley3 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A leader in providing virtual paralegal and virtual assistant
>>>>>>> services!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Follow Burley-Wilson& Associates, L.L.C.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Facebook: www.facebook.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>>>> Twitter: www.twitter.com/BurleyWilson
>>>>>>> Blog: www.burleywilson.wordpress.com
>>>>>>> Skype: BurleyWilson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Contact us for a FREE 30-minute consultation TODAY!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:53 AM
>>>>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users'
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Exactly. I could probably be away from work for a month, I did it
>>>>>>> when I
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> my daughter. Still, I do need to ask myself from a career
>>>>>>> perspective if
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> is worth doing to get a guide dog. And the answer is that while I
>>>>>>> did it
>>>>>>> once, I'm not sure I'd do it again. A month is a long time. I worry
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> the impact on my career should I have a match not work out or the
>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> able to work soon after coming home.
>>>>>>> I had to sell my work on why and how a dog would help me be a more
>>>>>>> effective
>>>>>>> employee. It was very stressful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Likewise, everybody understands having a baby, though I did see some
>>>>>>> disparty in that v. what my male coworkers are asked, mostly I was
>>>>>>> asked
>>>>>>> repeatedly when I would "go on maternity leave". I pointed out that
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> don't ask the guys when they will have heart attack, break bones,
>>>>>>> roll off
>>>>>>> their bikes, and that they would deal with it just fine when I
>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> said "I'm taking leave now".
>>>>>>> I think some of this is a disparty in the same process fits many
>>>>>>> people,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> people get bogged in who v. what and that muddies things.
>>>>>>> I also know that I couldn't be away from my daughter for a month.
>>>>>>> She
>>>>>>> needs
>>>>>>> me in a way work never has.
>>>>>>> I am not yet ready for another dog. I don't know when or if I will
>>>>>>> be. I
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> know that the being away from home leans me toward the "no" side of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> house.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Shannon L. Dillon
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:35 PM
>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with taking less time out of the work week for training and
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> providing in-home schedules for students. We need to continue to
>>>>>>> remind
>>>>>>> schools how important those alternatives are to us so that we can
>>>>>>> have our
>>>>>>> guide dogs but maintain employment and families.
>>>>>>> SHANNON L. DILLON
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 11:02:41 -0400
>>>>>>>> From: carcione at access.net
>>>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sam.
>>>>>>>> If you're so moved, you might write to TSE and tell them how you
>>>>>>>> feel. I
>>>>>>>> wrote to gradservices, myself. I've heard of instances before when
>>>>>>>> TSE
>>>>>>>> changed things because graduates spoke up.
>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>> I agree. It makes sense to leave a few days early, as that
>>>>>>>>> would put
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> close to the begining of a work week. I thought about posting
>>>>>>>>> that on
>>>>>>>>> the TSE list, but let's just say that things are at the point
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> not willing to get in the middle of these arguments. Based on how
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> are going with everything on there, I figure it is better to stay
>>>>>>> neutral.
>>>>>>>>> On 10/30/2011 10:23 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I'm glad class is a little shorter, but I'm a bit annoyed that
>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> weekend they've cut off. For me, arranging time off work is the
>>>>>>>> hardest
>>>>>>>>>> part of getting ready for class. I would be a lot happier if
>>>>>>>>>> they'd
>>>>>>>>>> start
>>>>>>>>>> on Saturday and drop a couple workdays at the end. Am I the only
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> who feels this way?
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think that there is just a little less down time. That was the
>>>>>>> length
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> my last class; I thought it was more challenging, or
>>>>>>>>>>> invigorating.
>>>>>>>>>>> CL
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 29, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Jewel wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What effect, if any, will this have on the training
>>>>>>>>>>>> sessions? It
>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>>>> it gives people less time to get acclimated to the area, but do
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>> need that extra time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Curious,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jewel
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/29/11, Margo and Arrow<margo.downey at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "The Seeing Eye, Inc."<noreply at seeingeye.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "Margo Downey"<margo.downey at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 2:11 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Seeing Eye Class Length Shortened
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Graduates,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> At The Seeing Eye, we've always been committed to serving our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the best way possible. Over the years, many students have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked if
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be possible to have a shorter stay here in order to return to
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>> friends,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> families, and jobs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In response, we've streamlined our training process in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> order to
>>>>>>> allow
>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> students to get home as quickly as possible. Starting with our
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in January, we will be able to reduce the time students
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spend on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> campus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> two days. Instead of arriving Saturday, students will now
>>>>>>>>>>>>> arrive
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Monday.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This will enable you to return home in two fewer days -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> retraining
>>>>>>>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will stay for 18 days, and new students for 25 days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Information on the updated class dates for 2012 can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.SeeingEye.org/Schedule
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Johnson
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of Instruction& Training
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This message was sent to margo.downey at verizon.net by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> noreply at seeingeye.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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