[nagdu] FW: Why good O&M training is so important

Tue Nov 8 20:04:50 UTC 2011

Yeah, last I heard, the state agencies are required to send consumers 
there unless theh agency can provide equivalent training... I keep 
getting the strong impression that the ones who refuse to obey the law 
there are the ones that are furthest from providing anything close. Grrr!
I've had some occasion to note that mentioning to the VR Director here 
about that law thing seems to make her real mad and she becomes even 
more melodramatic by an order of magnitude. It is really quite 
something. /lol/ Wait, why am I laughing. She's in charge of making sure 
that no blind person in the state of Oregon will recieve information, 
training and adaptive tools for work. She is, as far as I have ever been 
able to determine, truly dedicated to that task. Ugh!

Tami

On 11/07/2011 11:19 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
> Yeah Tami,
> Most of the folks around here are trained at the local places and the
> training sucks compared to what I hear about the NFB centers. What a
> shame. There are several here who have no cane skills and do all their
> travel by either paratransit or people's personal cars. Our Rehab
> refuses to send folks to the NFB centers as well.
>
> Keep on kickin' butt!!!
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 6:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] FW: Why good O&M training is so important
>
>
>> Lyn, the people I know who have beenthrough those NFB centers are
>> different in a whole lot of ways from those who have been through our
>> state agency. I'd thought it was just our agency, but it seems in a
>> lot of places O&M and other instruction is so lacking that the ones
>> who have had the NFB training really stand out! I also find that those
>> individuals are the ones I am most likely to end up spending time with
>> and doing things with... Only here it is difficult to encounterpeople
>> with that training instead of training by the agency, since our agency
>> just says "noe" to the NFB centers. Sigh. A few Oregonians have been
>> to one or the other of the NFB centers, but not many of them seem to
>> live around here or to engage in activities where I get to spend time
>> around them. Then again, I haven't been getting out as much as I like
>> because of the Road of Certain Doom and lack of money for bus fare,
>> anyway, but still!
>>
>> I did get together with one of my local deafblind friends and was able
>> to discuss the ins and outs of crossing at audible signals She has
>> recently gotten a cochlear implant, so is aware of sound cues... I
>> figure since she talks to other people, too, she can tell others about
>> the foly of using an audible signal as the only cue for street
>> crossings and so on... We're starting to compare resources and build
>> up a list of resources and so forth. She is attempting to work with
>> the Commission for the Blind here, and testing them by asking
>> questions by e-mail... I'm also talking to her about my evil plan to
>> get information about braille curricula and maybe even texts for
>> self-learning into the hands of blind people... There's another guy
>> around here who is doing that in some formal sense; however, she was
>> telling me she cannot feel the dots he produces on a mechanical
>> brailler to feel them to learn the alphabet So I let her feel the dots
>> on my old BrailelNote that a friend gave me, and that worked for her.
>> Hm...
>>
>> Our guide dogs were playing with Mitzi's toys at the time, just to
>> bring them in to the discussion. /lol/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> Yeah,
>>
>> On 11/06/2011 12:20 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>> I looked at the video and wow. I haven't had cane training by the NFB
>>> centers, but I have seen the good mobility of some NFBers at conventions
>>> and see the difference!
>>>
>>> Thanks for posting this.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rovig, Lorraine" <LRovig at nfb.org>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 10:42 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] FW: Why good O&M training is so important
>>>
>>>
>>>> Wow! Here below is what an NFB cane travel instructor, a sighted
>>>> counselor who was trained by Dr. Kenneth Jernigan at the Iowa
>>>> Commission for the Blind, and is now working at BLIND, Inc., in
>>>> Minneapolis, saw when he watched the video on Tommy's need for
>>>> accessible signals at crosswalks. (Is a state VR agency giving him
>>>> such poor travel training?)
>>>>
>>>> Lorraine Rovig
>>>> PS: After I was taught cane travel by Dick Davis, I easily passed a
>>>> 4-mile cane travel test, walking around the city of Des Moines while
>>>> wearing my sleepshades.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Dick Davis [mailto:ddavis at blindinc.org]
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 2:28 PM
>>>> To: Rovig, Lorraine
>>>> Subject: RE: [nagdu] Why good O&M training is so important
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Although you can tell from Tommy's commentary that he made a mistake
>>>> crossing the first street, in the second he hesitates before crossing,
>>>> neglects to use moving traffic to stay straight, veers to the right,
>>>> and
>>>> gets tangled up in a truck that is parked at the curb a distance
>>>> from the
>>>> crosswalk. If you use the video in seminar class, I suggest somebody
>>>> describe what is happening. Check out his other stuff: he can't swing a
>>>> golf club worth a darn, and flying to Los Angeles for the weekend
>>>> becomes
>>>> a major adventure. The fact that he has the man who showed up with the
>>>> wheelchair lead him through security and all the way to the boarding
>>>> area
>>>> demonstrates how independent he really is. They are making a film on
>>>> his
>>>> life as a blind person, and if they succeed in marketing it, I think it
>>>> will do a lot of damage to public attitudes about blindness. Center
>>>> students might want to see the video and offer comments on YouTube. I
>>>> thought of adding my own, but I think they would be better coming from
>>>> blind people.
>>>> Dick Davis
>>>> BLIND, Inc.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Rovig, Lorraine [mailto:LRovig at nfb.org]
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 9:05 AM
>>>> To: Dick Davis
>>>> Subject: FW: [nagdu] Why good O&M training is so important
>>>> Importance: High
>>>>
>>>> The several emails on this NAGDU listserv topic make a thoughtful
>>>> discussion in their own right that is completely in line with NFB
>>>> convention
>>>> resolutions. The email below is the first in the series. BTW, the
>>>> archive
>>>> for an NFB listserv is open to non-members.
>>>> Lorraine
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Aaron Cannon
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 10:17 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Why good O&M training is so important
>>>> Importance: High
>>>>
>>>> This video posted on the Yahoo Accessibility blog seeks to demonstrate
>>>> the
>>>> need for accessible crossing signals. However, in my opinion it manages
>>>> to do just the opposite quite nicely.
>>>>
>>>> http://yaccessibilityblog.com/wp/blind-people-cross-street.html
>>>>
>>>> I find it troubling that he talks about needing the signal "to indicate
>>>> that it's safe for me to cross the street." Even worse is his
>>>> comment "I
>>>> don't have to listen for the traffic coming the other way, I can just
>>>> listen to the tone."
>>>>
>>>> He also calls crossing without a signal "daunting" and "scary".
>>>>
>>>> I can understand that such crossings can be quite daunting and scary if
>>>> you don't have good training or practice making such crossings, so I
>>>> don't
>>>> really fault him for that. However, I fear that people, especially
>>>> other
>>>> blind people, watching this video will assume that that's how it is for
>>>> everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, I do think that accessible signals can have their place, but
>>>> certainly not the type shown in this video, which seem like they could
>>>> actually interfere with listening to the traffic.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I just thought I'd share.
>>>>
>>>> Aaron Cannon
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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