[nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan

Ann Edie annedie at nycap.rr.com
Wed Nov 9 10:11:56 UTC 2011


Hi, Marion,

A few years ago when I was in Michigan visiting my husband's family, we went
to a Chinese buffet-type restaurant and the manager tried to deny us access
because of the presence of my guide dog.  There happened to be an off-duty
State trooper in the restaurant at the time who observed the discussion at
the door and immediately came over, identified himself to the manager, and
told him that if he didn't allow us to enter the restaurant and receive
service, that he (the trooper) would write a citation on the spot.  So maybe
the Michigan State Police are more informed about the law than the local
police.  Or perhaps it just depends on the individual and how aware and
sensitive they are to the needs of people with disabilities and other civil
rights issues.  I have found that people in Michigan, especially officials
like the police, are actually better informed and better advocates than in
some other states, because the Lions' Clubs are very active in promoting
Leader Dogs and many public servants, such as police and sherrifs, are
members of the Lions' Clubs and engage in fundraising and promotion of
Leader Dogs and by extention, other guide dog related interests.

Best,
Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:14 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan

Chasity,
    He already has a lawyer to pursue this. That lawyer is the State's
Attorney! In Michigan it is a criminal offense. BTW, feel free to give him
my phone number and have him give me a call. It is below my signature.

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala, President
National Association of Guide Dog Users (NAGDU) National Federation of the
Blind
813-626-2789
President at NAGDU.ORG
HTTP://WWW.NAGDU.ORG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chasity Jackson" <chasityvanda at charter.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 5:46 PM
Subject: [nagdu] I Talked to the guy in Michigan


>I called the guy in Grand Rapids. He called me back. I have a friend who is

>an advocate in New York. She has been an advocate for over 40 years. I 
>connected the two of them. She is advising him on how to legally pursue 
>this from here. Marion, he would also like to speak with you, and I will be

>emailing you his info. He is looking for a lawyer to pursue this. Thanks.
> Chasity
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>
>
>> At State Convention I met a few.  We are in the beginning stages of 
>> organizing but most of them appear to be from the Southeast and Grand 
>> Rapids is on the West.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 4:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>
>>
>>> Larry,
>>>    Do we have any guide dog users on that side of the Wolverine State?
>>>
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Larry D. Keeler" <lkeeler at comcast.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 3:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>
>>>
>>>> Its on the other side of the state from me or I would!
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 2:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I would like to see a NAGDU member go to this restaurant and file a 
>>>>>criminal complaint aginst the manager. Violation of Michigan's access 
>>>>>law is a second degree misdemeanor.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:50 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I would like to see that restaurant go out of business.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Ginger Kutsch
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:42 AM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Restaurant ordered service dog to lobby
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank Eckl goes everywhere with Spruce
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Published : Monday, 07 Nov 2011,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By Leon Hendrix
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CASCADE TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WOOD) - Frank Eckl and his family --  
>>>>>> including his
>>>>>> service dog -- went to dinner Saturday night at Don Julio's 
>>>>>> restaurant in
>>>>>> Cascade Township. But the manager said the dog had to stay in the 
>>>>>> lobby.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eckl told 24 Hour News 8 he takes the dog with him wherever he goes. 
>>>>>> He uses
>>>>>> the dog because of a disability he has that causes occasional 
>>>>>> seizures. When
>>>>>> he's alone, it's his service dog Spruce that calls for help and helps

>>>>>> him
>>>>>> get up if he's fallen to the ground.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He said he's never had a problem bringing Spruce with him since the 
>>>>>> law
>>>>>> allows it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the manager at Don Julio's wouldn't allow the dog in the dining 
>>>>>> area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "She [the manager] said we were more than welcome to stay, but 
>>>>>> patrons in
>>>>>> the restaurant and the manager didn't want dog hair in the 
>>>>>> restaurant," he
>>>>>> said. "I was shocked that we were asked to have the dog leave and we 
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> stay."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The manager-on-duty admitted they insisted the dog stay in the 
>>>>>> entrance way
>>>>>> to the restaurant, and that she would make the same request it again.

>>>>>> She
>>>>>> said patrons at the restaurant complained about the dog and that some

>>>>>> opted
>>>>>> to leave because of sanitation concerns.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I asked for him to bring the dog out to the main entrance to the 
>>>>>> lobby,"
>>>>>> the manager said. She refused to provide her name to 24 Hour News 8. 
>>>>>> "I
>>>>>> didn't ask for him to take his dog back home, to take his dog to the 
>>>>>> car or
>>>>>> leave him outside in the middle of the parking lot at all."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eckl and his family simply left the restaurant and went to the IHOP
>>>>>> restaurant next door, where they were welcomed with Spruce.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Others that use service dogs have been asked to comply by the same 
>>>>>> rules
>>>>>> without complaint, the manager at Don Julio's said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I can't keep every customer happy," she said, adding that she was 
>>>>>> aware
>>>>>> that Spruce was a service dog but didn't realize it was Eckl who used

>>>>>> him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I knew it was not for him. He didn't tell me the service dog was for

>>>>>> him...
>>>>>> He wasn't clear to me either."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jocelyn Dettloff, a representative for the Disability Advocates of 
>>>>>> Kent
>>>>>> County, said the violation is more serious than unhappy customers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "That's insane!" Dettloff said. "I mean, who would say that you have 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> leave your cane or your mobility device at the door. People who rely 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> service animals -- it's the exact same thing."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But Dettloff says there is a problem with the laws prohibiting
>>>>>> discrimination against the disabled because they are rarely enforced.

>>>>>> The
>>>>>> most someone like Eckl can do, she said, is file a complaint that 
>>>>>> could take
>>>>>> more than a year to get attention. Even then, she said, there is no
>>>>>> punishment for establishments that break the law.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eckl could file a civil lawsuit as well, Dettloff said, but he would 
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> likely be awarded damages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The law definitely needs some sort of stricter enforcement," she 
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> "There is no strict enforcement like the health department or the 
>>>>>> fire
>>>>>> department."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eckl says he isn't seeking monetary damages and doesn't really want 
>>>>>> anything
>>>>>> from Don Julio's, other than an apology and training for its staff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I'm not out for malice here," he said, adding that he wouldn't go 
>>>>>> back to
>>>>>> the establishment again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The manager at Don Julio's said she stands by her actions and would 
>>>>>> do the
>>>>>> same thing again if Eckl returned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I have to," she said. "I can't have any kind of animal be around 
>>>>>> food. It's
>>>>>> kinda hard having most of my customers leave out on me because of one
>>>>>> customer."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eckl wrote a letter about his experience and sent it to area media 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> groups that advocate for the disabled:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To whom it may concern,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This past Saturday, November 4th, 2011, at 6pm, my family and I 
>>>>>> wanted to
>>>>>> eat at you establishment. This included my wife Karen, and my 
>>>>>> daughter Lydia
>>>>>> (who happens to have Special Needs.) My Service Dog, Spruce, was with

>>>>>> me.
>>>>>> Spruce was wearing her jacket that displays "SERVICE DOG." I have her

>>>>>> for
>>>>>> medical needs and she regularly assists me in my daily life.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We entered your restaurant, were seated in the back where no one else

>>>>>> was
>>>>>> seated. The gentleman that seated us even turned on lights for us. We

>>>>>> were
>>>>>> given menus and served water. It was at this time that a waitress 
>>>>>> addressed
>>>>>> us and stated: "You can stay but your dog must wait outside." I 
>>>>>> explained
>>>>>> the public law which states that I can have my Service Dog with me. 
>>>>>> We were
>>>>>> then told that the manager had complaints about "dog hair" and that a

>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> was disruptive to the other patrons. When I said that Spruce stays 
>>>>>> and helps
>>>>>> me, we were asked to take Spruce out. We then left. Upon calling
>>>>>> authorities, the police stated this was a "civil matter" and to seek
>>>>>> council.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am an Honorably Discharged (10 yr) USAF veteran, who served his 
>>>>>> country in
>>>>>> both war and peace-time. It's hard to belief that discrimination such

>>>>>> as
>>>>>> this exists today. My disability is due to of my service. The real 
>>>>>> issue is
>>>>>> no one with a disability should be told they can't have their 
>>>>>> assistance
>>>>>> with them and then have to leave an establishment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find myself with the opportunity to help educate your organization 
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the Law and others by making this incident public. I choose not to 
>>>>>> seek
>>>>>> council, but rather inform you and other organizations of this 
>>>>>> incident in
>>>>>> hopes that this type of discrimination will not take place again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From the ADA: Service animals are animals that are individually 
>>>>>> trained to
>>>>>> perform tasks for people with disabilities such as guiding people who

>>>>>> are
>>>>>> blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling wheelchairs, alerting 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> protecting a person who is having a seizure, or performing "other" 
>>>>>> special
>>>>>> tasks. Service animals are working animals, not pets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), businesses and
>>>>>> organizations that serve the public must allow people with 
>>>>>> disabilities to
>>>>>> bring their service animals into all areas of the facility where 
>>>>>> customers
>>>>>> are normally allowed to go. This federal law applies to all 
>>>>>> businesses open
>>>>>> to the public, including restaurants, hotels, taxis and shuttles, 
>>>>>> grocery
>>>>>> and department stores, hospitals and medical offices, theaters, 
>>>>>> health
>>>>>> clubs, parks, and zoos.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michigan Statutes, 1953, Section 750.502c (last amended in 1984 by 
>>>>>> Public
>>>>>> Act 110)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michigan statutory law guarantees a blind person the legal right to 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> accompanied by a dog guide in harness in all public accommodations 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> educational institutions and on all public conveyances. The dog guide

>>>>>> user
>>>>>> can be required to produce identification, such as the I.D. card 
>>>>>> furnished
>>>>>> by the dog guide school from which the dog was obtained.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Public accommodations include trains, buses, taxis, elevators, boats,

>>>>>> and
>>>>>> other common carriers...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Violation: Any person who interferes with the above enumerated rights

>>>>>> is
>>>>>> guilty of a misdemeanor and therefore punishable under Michigan 
>>>>>> law...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In acknowledgement of this letter, I ask only for a formal apology 
>>>>>> and for
>>>>>> you to conduct training with your staff on the Laws concerning 
>>>>>> customers
>>>>>> with Service Dogs. This is the only compensation I wish to ask of 
>>>>>> you. This
>>>>>> incident was embarrassing and offensive. I would hope that anyone 
>>>>>> with a
>>>>>> disability who chooses to dine at Don Julio's would never encounter 
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> intolerance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frank J. Eckl
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Comment Privately
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Comment to 24 Hour News 8
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't have a Facebook account? Or don't want to share something 
>>>>>> publicly?
>>>>>> Email us here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> See a comment that should be moderated? Fill out the form here and 
>>>>>> tell us
>>>>>> why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Comment >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for

>>>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> nagdu:
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