[nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs

Thu Sep 1 13:01:19 UTC 2011

Hi Tatyana.
Welcome to the list.
Maybe people were right about your friend being too trusting of her dog,
or maybe the people who used to lead her around just couldn't believe that
she could do without them.  I can't count the number of times someone has
thought my dog was going to run me into something, or drag me down some
stairs, and we were just fine.  Lots of people don't give a blind person
or dog much credit, and I suspect that would be especially true if those
people saw themselves being replaced by the dog.  At least some might.
Tracy
 > Hi Shannon,
> Thank you very much for your story. I'm now reading all e- mails and just
> trying to absorb all that interesting and useful information that people
> share here on the list. Yeh, I think there's a difference   between  when
> you are
> transitioning to a dog being an advanced cane user or as  being   depend
> on
> others. Perhaps if you didn never  use a cane you  adopt an idea to trust
> a
> dog
> mor smoothly. But it may have a negative results too. I have a friend who
> walked only with help of others, holding an elbow,and when she got a dog
> all
> were concerned how fast she walked and  she relied  too much on a dog. One
> day,
> she was on a road too close to a traffic going along, while she needed to
> keep
> closer to a side. Not sure how it could be, but she was told that she was
> too close to a traffic and it was unsafe situation. As for me, I also
> preferred  in past
> to walk with someone but now I'm more independened and walk in my
> neighborhood
> and catch a bus to a store. But I can not  imagine myself using metro,
> going
> to
> D.C. or something. So it took time to me to transit from  a depended on
> others to a cane user,  and with a dog, kind of I would  need to do it
> vice
> versa.
>
> Sorry for confusing writing, my head already should explode soon from
> checking grammar. Thanks again.
>
>
>> Hi Tatyana:
>> My name is Shannon and I have a German Shepherd guide.  She is my first
>> guide. I've had her for five years and a few months.
>>
>> I wanted to respond to your message because I thought I would have a lot
>> of difficulty with the transition from cane to dog.  Or, maybe I did
>> have
>> difficulty with the transition from cane to dog.  I am a good cane user.
>> I love my cane, and still love my cane, and I definitely use it in
>> places.
>>
>> I think it took a while for me to automatically trust the dog rather
>> than
>> to want to reach out with my cane and feel.  My automatic response was
>> to
>> want to use a cane to reach out and feel things.  It took a couple of
>> months definitely.  I learned the hard way a couple of times.  I was in
>> a
>> place where I was sure that I knew exactly where the curbs were.  Well,
>> I
>> was a little farther away from the building than usual, and I told my
>> dog
>> to go forward, and she wouldn't, letting me know that she thought there
>> was a curb there and she wouldn't move until I found it with my foot.
>> And
>> I didn't believe her.  I don't know what I was thinking, but I dropped
>> her
>> harness and figured that I would lead her past whatever was causing her
>> not to move.  Well, quite unknown to me, the there was a step there that
>> I
>> didn't know about because it was in a different part of the path than I
>> usually walked, and so I tripped down the curb.  I remember it hurting a
>> little. I probably had heels on because I was walking to work.  I
>> twisted
>> my ankle a little. So that was a wake-up call that really helped instill
>> in me the need to pay attention to my dog.  She did her job right.  I
>> just
>> wasn't paying attention.  So, I don't know how many new users do
>> something
>> quite as dumb, but it was a good lesson for me.
>>
>> I also remember being at a camp like a summer camp, for a networking
>> weekend, where there were paths among grass, and some of the paths
>> weren't
>> that wide.  I had only had my dog for a month, and I was used to working
>> in regular streets and sidewalks, and in airports and buildings (because
>> of my job), but I hadn't had very much experience working her in a
>> setting
>> where there were irregular paths scattered among grass.  I honestly just
>> used my cane to find the paths and lead my dog.  I got some negative
>> feedback for doing it, too, from other people at the camp.  They asked
>> if
>> I had gotten a guide dog for a pet or if I was planning to use it.
>>
>> Today, being more experienced, I don't know if I'd do it the same way.
>> I
>> haven't been back to the same place so I can't evaluate it.  For a long
>> time, though, I carried a telescoping cane in my backpack, or my
>> briefcase, or my purse, and if I felt nervous or frustrated, or if I
>> wanted a landmark to make me feel better, I used my cane and led the
>> dog.
>> I don't remember how often I actually used the cane and led the dog, but
>> I
>> can tell you that for me, in the beginning, I felt a lot better knowing
>> my
>> cane was somewhere I could get to it. So you may want to consider that
>> to
>> see if that would make you feel more comfortable.  Also, the other
>> important thing to know is, I'm not the only one who does this.  I
>> didn't
>> know that at the time.  I sort of felt like I must be weird or
>> something.
>> The truth is, since then, I have known other people who choose to use
>> their canes in some circumstances and their dogs in others, and it's
>> really about what works for you.
>>
>>
>> SHANNON L. DILLON
>>
>>
>>> From: tagriru at gmail.com
>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:02:41 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs
>>>
>>> Dear Buddy,
>>> You are explaining well about macro and micorview. Frankly I can't
>>> imagine
>>> that I totally rely on a dog and not use my cane. It's something very
>>> different and obviously it takes time to retrain brain from micro to
>>> macro.
>>> I would like to hear stories from somebody who had difficulties with
>>> such
>>> a
>>> transition. And thank you all again.
>>> Tatyana.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 10:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Questions About Guide Dogs
>>>
>>>
>>> > Hi Larry,
>>> >
>>> > Yeah, these guys are great in what they can be taught. Given
>>> patience,
>>> > time, and some training tricks you're likely to learn at guide dog
>>> > school
>>> > and pick up along the way here and elsewhere, a dog's ability to
>>> learn
>>> > new
>>> > skills is amazing.
>>> >
>>> > I do think it's important to discuss the differences in orientation
>>> > with a
>>> > dog versus with a cane. While you will use many of the same skills,
>>> > such
>>> > as finding landmarks and using environmental clues to determine where
>>> > you
>>> > are in space, the landmarks and clues you use with a dog will of
>>> > necessity
>>> > often be very different from the ones you use with a cane. A cane
>>> will
>>> > give you a lot of tactile landmarks, and you get a very in-depth idea
>>> > of
>>> > your very immediate surroundings. This way, you can know that you
>>> turn
>>> > into the second driveway after the third mailbox on your right. Or,
>>> you
>>> > can know that just past the bench at shin level, there is a trash
>>> can,
>>> > and
>>> > just past that you'll find a bus stop pole. These kinds of things
>>> > aren't
>>> > as easy to do with a dog. Since your dog will treat things in your
>>> path
>>> > as
>>> > obstacles, you can't very well use them as landmarks, so you have to
>>> > use
>>> > other things, such as the change in acoustics (for instance, are you
>>> > under
>>> > an overhanging roof or not), changing in pavement texture, and the
>>> > like,
>>> > not to mention estimating distances to things. As time goes on,
>>> you'll
>>> > even learn to use things like your dog's reaction as environmental
>>> > clues
>>> > unfamiliar routes. Strange but true. I think someone said that with a
>>> > dog,
>>> > you've got more of a macro view of your surroundings, where using a
>>> > cane
>>> > gives you a micro view, or a more detailed view. Some people don't
>>> care
>>> > about that, while others may well feel very lost without all of the
>>> > very
>>> > immediate tactile information one gets from a cane. I say there's a
>>> > place
>>> > for both. Sometimes the close-in tactile world is a great tool for
>>> > teaching your dog something new, but sometimes that same view gets in
>>> > the
>>> > way and slows you down. I'm sure I'm not explaining this well at all.
>>> > --
>>> > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> > Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Aug 30, 2011, at 9:48 PM, Larry D. Keeler wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> My neighborhood is very walkable as well. My mobility is pretty
>>> good.
>>> >> I
>>> >> like working with my Holly for a few reasons. We can move really
>>> fast
>>> >> and not have to worry about bumping into anything. For instance, I
>>> >> have
>>> >> to transfer busses often. I try to run to catch the next bus and
>>> bump,
>>> >> bump, bump!! I would have to have a head like a musk ox to survive
>>> all
>>> >> of those posts I bump into. And a 30 foot cane to hit them in time
>>> to
>>> >> stop! I haven't hit 1 post with Holly! Also, Holly is just a great
>>> >> companion! I forgot, she also will go around those cars who insist
>>> on
>>> >> sticking out in stopped traffic and finding those curb cuts quickly.
>>> >> And
>>> >> she also finds the push button lights and now, the sheltered bus
>>> >> stops!
>>> >> I'm trying to think of a way she can find the bus stops that are not
>>> >> sheltered.
>>> >> Intelligence is always claimed but rarely proven!
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