[nagdu] Stress Issues

Natalie nrorrell at qwest.net
Sun Sep 11 21:35:17 UTC 2011


Hi Lora,
I can certainly empathize.  I'm at work at my internship four days a week 
and have class on Tuesdays and bowl on Saturdays, along with taking care of 
what's needed.  When I come home, I've got to relax, smile.  During that 
time, I include Liam.  Throw the squeaky toy, Kong or ball, hold one end of 
the Nyla while he chews on the other, praise and talk to him, etc.  I praise 
him and let him know in great detail about how well he did that day, and 
just really make a big party out of it for him.  He's all a-wag like 
nothing, and he's so happy.  Hopefully others can give you tips and tricks 
on how they juggle a busy schedule such as what you and I have and how they 
keep their dogs in tip-top happiness.
Best,
Nat and Liam Joshua

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lora" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues


> List
> My life is very busy in the fact that I have classes and an
> internship. I walk three to four miles a day. I go to class then I go
> hang out at my church class studying on the days that I have an
> internship I have the internship all day and then I go home and study
> or maybe go to a church social activity. On the weekends I walk a few
> miles to go grocery shopping and attend church.
>
> On 9/6/11, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
>> Ann,
>> This post is beautiful. Thank you.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Ann Edie
>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 3:41 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues
>>
>> Hi, Steve, Lora, and Everybody,
>>
>> Steve, the implied answer to your rhetorical question about the root of
>> behavior problems in guide dogs is, "the handler."  However, I don't 
>> think
>> this is necessarily a fair answer.  It could as well be "the breeding
>> program" or "the puppy-raising program" or "genetics" or "the nature of
>> dogs" or many other answers which I haven't thought of off the top of my
>> head, that has caused the problems.
>>
>> I think it is unfair to blame the handler for all behavior issues in 
>> guide
>> dogs or in pet dogs for that matter.  Sometimes it truly is that a dog is
>> not cut out to be a guide dog 24 hours per day, that the only way that 
>> dog
>> made it through training was because it was only worked for an hour per 
>> day
>> and was then put back in the kennels where there was no opportunity to
>> counter surf, chew up everything in the bathroom wastepaper baskets, eat 
>> the
>> kids toys and everyone's clothes and shoes, steal a whole roast or a 
>> stick
>> of butter off the dining room table, and dash out the door any time he 
>> isn't
>> tied down.  The trainers/instructors never see these behaviors because 
>> they
>> don't live with the dogs.  And if a dog comes to the blind handler with
>> these behaviors established in his history, even if the handler follows 
>> to
>> the letter the instructions of the program as to how to gradually allow 
>> the
>> dog more freedom in the house and religiously performs obedience 
>> exercises
>> daily and gives the dog opportunities to play and release stress, etc., 
>> the
>> unwanted behaviors will most likely appear as soon as opportunity 
>> presents
>> itself and will be extremely difficult to change because they are so
>> reinforcing to the dog.
>>
>> In my own case, I had had several pet dogs which I had raised from 
>> puppies
>> before I got my first guide dog.  My pets were always very well-behaved 
>> in
>> the house as well as in public, and had many admirers who expressed their
>> willingness to offer my dogs a home if a situation ever occured which
>> prevented me from keeping them.  I also competed in obedience with 
>> several
>> of my pet dogs, so I know something of formal obedience as well as just 
>> good
>> manners in dogs.
>>
>> My first guide was not only a fine working guide but also had the house
>> manners I expected.  He could be left off-leash in the house without fear
>> that he would eat the kids' toys or food from the counters, or, after a
>> little training, even the food in the pet dog's bowl.  He waited for
>> permission to go through the door and had a reliable recall.  And I 
>> didn't
>> have to go through any herculean efforts to achieve this result.  That 
>> dog
>> performed his guide tasks admirably and lived as a beloved member of my
>> family for 9 years, until his death.  At the time, I didn't consider any 
>> of
>> this extraordinary.  I thought it was just what was to be expected of a
>> highly trained and specially bred guide dog.
>>
>> My next 2 guide dogs were completely different.  They had horrible house
>> manners and terrible prey drive.  They showed lots of stress symptoms, 
>> such
>> as losing hair, chewing on their legs and feet, having relieving 
>> accidents
>> indoors, having feeding problems, and losing weight.  Dealing with these 
>> two
>> dogs and trying to salvage the partnerships with each of them was
>> emotionally devastating as well as physically exhausting to me.  If I 
>> hadn't
>> had the background with my pet dogs and my first guide dog that I had, I
>> surely would have been convinced that I was simply a poor handler who
>> couldn't maintain the precious investment of time and effort that had 
>> gone
>> into producing these special dogs.  And the often stated opinion 
>> expressed
>> by long-time dog handlers on lists such as this one, that problems in 
>> guide
>> dogs after placement were almost invariably due to lax discipline on the
>> part of the blind handler, certainly did not help or support me in my 
>> time
>> of struggle.
>>
>> In the end, I had to conclude that further efforts to keep working with
>> those dogs were not going to succeed, and that their return to the school
>> was the only viable solution.  Neither of those dogs was reissued to 
>> another
>> blind handler, although both were certainly young enough to make this the
>> logical course of action, if it had been a "mismatch" or poor choice of
>> handler which had caused the problems with these dogs.
>>
>> In other words, my considered opinion is that the guide dog training
>> programs are not perfect.  They do occasionally put out dogs which are 
>> not
>> temperamentally suited to be guides and dogs which cannot take the stress 
>> of
>> full-time guide work, as opposed to being a dog in training.  From what 
>> Lora
>> has said, it sounds as if she has sought and followed the advice of her
>> training program on how to deal with the issues that have come up with 
>> her
>> dog.  It sounds as if she has made sincere efforts to retrain the dog and 
>> to
>> manage the undesirable behaviors.  I would not want Lora to feel that she 
>> is
>> somehow to blame for her dog's poor house manners or dangerous behaviors,
>> either because she was not rigorous enough in her discipline or because 
>> she
>> was too strict and controlling of her dog's every move.
>>
>> Certainly, the types and amounts of unwanted behavior that each of us is
>> willing or able to live with in our animal companions differs, and may
>> differ with our living arrangements and family circumstances as well as
>> other lifestyle variables.  But I don't think there is anything wrong 
>> with
>> having a bottom line when it comes to behavior, either in the home or in
>> public, either guide work behaviors or companion or social  behaviors.
>>
>> Lora wrote asking for ways that she might use to relieve stress in her 
>> dog.
>> How about we just answer her question without adding to both her own 
>> stress
>> and that of the dog?
>>
>> In that vain, Lora, have you found any safe fenced place, such as a 
>> tennis
>> court or fenced yard, where you can play supervised games with your dog 
>> such
>> as tug-o-war or fetching games, where there are not too many things that 
>> he
>> can get in trouble with?  When he is indoors, can you keep him on leash 
>> so
>> that he goes with you wherever you move rather than putting him on a tie
>> where he has to stay in one place?  Have you tried giving him his food in
>> one of the puzzle toys where he has to work to get the food out a piece 
>> at a
>> time?  Have you used T-Touch or massage with him for relaxation?  Have 
>> you
>> played little training games with him (on leash) where you have someone 
>> drop
>> a piece of food (or paper) or something that is not too attractive to him
>> and then reward him instantly with a higher value treat for not diving 
>> for
>> the dropped item immediately?  Does he have favorite chew toys available 
>> to
>> him frequently?  Does he know explicitly which objects are his own to do
>> what he wants with and which objects are not his and are entirely off
>> limits?  Has he been checked out by a vet for medical reasons for his 
>> stress
>> level or for causes of some of his obsessive behaviors?
>>
>> I hope you will be able to find ways to help your dog relax while at the
>> same time helping him behave in acceptable ways so that you can all live
>> together comfortably.  And, if nothing works and you find that you simply
>> cannot continue to live and work with this dog for your own peace of mind
>> and for his safety, then don't think it is your fault in any way.  You 
>> have
>> given it a good try, and that is all that we can do.  If the dog is not 
>> cut
>> out for the job, then he will never be happy in that life.  Hopefully, if 
>> it
>> comes to that decision, there is a wonderful dog out there just waiting 
>> to
>> be your guide and companion, and there is a wonderful family somewhere 
>> who
>> would be delighted to have your dog as a pampered pet.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>>   ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steven Johnson" <blinddog3 at charter.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 1:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues
>>
>>
>>>A good friend of mine pointed out to me after I made a comment how all of
>>>my
>>> dogs had similar habits.  They simply said, in a question, and what is 
>>> the
>>> common denominator?  This made me think very closely to what I was doing
>>> right and those things I let slide.  I also know of others who have had 
>>> a
>>> number of dogs in a short period of time, and I always simply ask this
>>> question.  So, what is the common denominator?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 10:44 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Stress Issues
>>>
>>> Wow! I don't think "I guess this dog just can't be an off leash dog" is
>>> really an acceptable answer. I have had a batch of dogs and several
>>> problems, but I never had one that had to always be tied, leashed, or
>>> crated. Cindy
>>>
>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:39 AM, Lora wrote:
>>>
>>>> My school gave me lots of methods that I tried to get this dog to
>>>> listen of leash and finally the school was like well I guess this dog
>>>> can't be an off leash dog.
>>>>
>>>> On 9/5/11, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I can't remember if you have spoken to the school about this. You
>>> shouldn't
>>>>> have lots of off leash problems with him at this point. If it was 
>>>>> stress
>>>>> though, wouldn't his guiding be affected, too? I don't really know. I
>>>>> had
>>> a
>>>>> dog once that the vet said was stress drinking, but she was a good
>>> working
>>>>> dog. I hope someone can help you more than I can apparently help.
>>>>>
>>>>> CL
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Lora wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've had him for about a year. I know I have a very busy lifestyle.
>>>>>> His guide work is amazing and I like him as a dog. His off leash
>>>>>> issues are about the only issue. I've had previous dogs that have had
>>>>>> lots of problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/5/11, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I can't remember how long you have had this dog. Weren't you having
>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>> with him from the time you got him? I can't remember for sure. I 
>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>> remember where he came from either, though in the end that wouldn't
>>>>>>> matter.
>>>>>>> Why do you think he has so much stress in his life?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cindy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 5, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Lora wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello List:
>>>>>>>> I know we've probably had this discussion before but I would
>>>>>>>> appreciate it if we could have it again. My dog is loosing a lot of
>>>>>>>> hair and I think it is due to stress since he is on a good diet. I
>>>>>>>> can't trust him off leash since he doesn't listen at all. I have
>>>>>>>> tried
>>>>>>>> letting him play on a flexilead but he won't run around. I play 
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> him tug of war and other games like that but I don't think he's
>>>>>>>> getting enough stress out of his life. Do you have any suggestions?
>>>>>>>> Thank You.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Lora
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Lora
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Lora
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> Lora
>
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