[nagdu] another what would you do question

Fri Apr 6 17:02:50 UTC 2012

Julie,
The person with the aggressive guide dog has no right to take his dog into 
situations where he will endanger another person, period, end of discussion. 
(grin!)  Even the ADA allows for access denial if the dog would create a 
serious danger to other people.  The problem needs to be dealt with either 
through talking to the guy or reporting him to his school.

You are NOT being selfish by putting you and your dog's safety first. 
Because your dog cannot defend himself against attack because of being 
attached to you, your job is to protect him any way you can.

You owe NO apologies to anyone.  The guy needs to shape up before his dog 
bites a person and then he'll really be in legal doodoo.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question

> Robert,
>
> Yes, this is very helpful.  As you said I don't know this individual or 
> the circumstances he is experiencing.  However the two individuals I have 
> spoken with have indicated some very serious behavioral issues.  I'd like 
> to be supportive and understanding of the man, but the honest truth is 
> that I don't want to endanger my dog or cause irreparable damage to his 
> training.   I'm putting myself and Monty first, however callous that is.
>
> I've decided to call one of the friends back to get some more information 
> and the phone number for the other guide dog user if my friend will give 
> it to me.  If I can I'm going to give him a call.  I will be polite and 
> understanding, but the bottom line for me is safety.
>
> Thanks for all the help and ideas from everyone.  I appreciate all the 
> suggestions and especially the support.
> Julie
>
>
>
>
> On 4/6/2012 8:15 AM, Robert Hooper wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> If it were me, I would only contact the individual if you had 
>> incontrovertible evidence of this dog's aggression (something more than 
>> hearsay evidence, in other words). Personally, I would feel offended if I 
>> got a call out of the blue about my dog's behavior if I thought such 
>> concerns were unfounded. I don't know what evidence you have regarding 
>> this dog's behavior, but I would require a high confidence level (more 
>> than 70%) before I would approach a random stranger about something which 
>> might just be rumor. For example, maybe another dog startled this 
>> "aggressive" dog and the dog barked once or twice. That's not in itself 
>> aggressive behavior. Evidence from one person or one event does not 
>> constitute reality. Also, I would be careful about how I would talk to 
>> this gentleman--assuming the dog does have an aggression issue, perhaps 
>> this gentleman is aware of it and working with a school or on his own to 
>> resolve it. If it's as serious as it sounds, maybe he is already looking 
>> into a new home for the dog or getting a new one. So, I would avoid "you" 
>> messages--I.e. "You better make sure your darn dog is under control" or 
>> "Your monster better not be within five miles of mine" (don't worry, 
>> Julie, I'm exaggerating--I know you wouldn't say it like that). Rather, 
>> use "I" messages so as not to put the guy on the spot and hurt him--as I 
>> said, he may be aware that there is a problem and it could already be 
>> causing him emotional stress and pain. Things like "I've heard some 
>> things regarding your dog's behavior towards other dogs--need I be 
>> concerned about this?" Of course, this person could also be the world's 
>> biggest tool--I know no more than what you have said on list--but I know 
>> that if Bailey exhibited aggressive behavior toward other dogs, I would 
>> be under a lot of stress and would be working on a solution to the 
>> problem--it would be emotionally humiliating if people swept up their 
>> dogs and babies at the sight of Bailey. The handlers can't always be 
>> faulted at their dog's behavior. Granted, the handlers are responsible 
>> for taking action when their dog's behave inappropriately, but if their 
>> dog was recently attacked, the dog could be exhibiting some 
>> post-traumatic symptoms for which the handler is not responsible. Also, 
>> it is very difficult to alter such behavior if it is the result of a dog 
>> attack. I would just consider all sides of the coin and be sure not to 
>> judge the handler by his dog's behavior.
>> I'm sure you have thought about all this, but it doesn't seem as though 
>> this perspective has yet been shared on list, so there you have it. I'm 
>> glad you are able to find other transportation arrangements; if you 
>> decide to bite the bullet and contact the person, I would just consider 
>> what he's been going through and the possibility that people may have 
>> been rude or tactless about the issue before you. If so, he may seem 
>> defensive about it. I hope this is of some value.
>> Sincerely,
>> Robert Hooper
>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>> The Ohio State University
>> 0653 Buckeye-Cuyahoga CT
>> 653 Cuyahoga Court
>> Columbus, Ohio 43210
>> (740) 856-8195
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] another what would you do question
>>
>> Lyn,
>>
>> Thanks!  I'm working on the transportation half of the issue, so I won't 
>> have to worry about the other dog in that confined space.  At least at
>> the hotel I will have room to maneuver if the need arises.   I don't
>> always know when there is another dog near me though, unless there is 
>> some noise of some variety.  It will be difficult for me to keep from 
>> encountering the other dog for the entire weekend.  I think Jenine and 
>> others are right, I need to suck it up and call the other guide dog 
>> handler to have a chat about this.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/5/2012 4:21 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>> Hey Julie,
>>> It sure is miserable when other people have service dogs that are
>>> aggressive.
>>>
>>> You shouldn't be the one to leave your dog home - that other person
>>> should leave their aggressive dog home.
>>>
>>> I'd say, see for yourself and make sure the two dogs aren't on top of
>>> each other or face to face.  Maybe in the van, one of you sits up
>>> front and the other one in the back where the two dogs won't even see
>>> each other.  My two cents.
>>>
>>> Lyn and landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie J."<julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 9:28 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] another what would you do question
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello all!
>>>>
>>>> I have another what would you do in this situation question.  I'm
>>>> going to apologize in advance because my information is going to seem
>>>> cryptic.
>>>>
>>>> I am attending an event with other blind people and some guide dogs.
>>>> I am riding to this event in a van with one of the other guide dogs.
>>>> I am planning on taking Monty.  I have heard from more than one
>>>> trusted source that the other guide dog is aggressive.   I do not
>>>> know the other guide dog handler at all.  I do not know what program
>>>> the dog is from.  Not going to this event is not an option.  getting
>>>> there another way is an extremely remote option that I'm looking
>>>> into.  Even if I do find other transportation I will be in a small
>>>> hotel for the weekend where this other guide dog will also be.
>>>>
>>>> So what do I do?  I've thought about leaving Monty, but there won't
>>>> be anyone available to care for him.  I'd have to leave him at the
>>>> dog sitter's place.  It also feels like leaving Monty is allowing the
>>>> other person to not take responsibility for his dog.
>>>>
>>>> Is there some obvious solution that I'm overlooking? I know you guys
>>>> are awesome and will have great ideas.
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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