[nagdu] Wanting to Chase all moving animals, especially small ones...

Tue Apr 24 17:20:23 UTC 2012

Gary,

Mitzi still puts on the melodramatic performance of how she is being 
tortured with such a medieval device! /lol/ Generally when my hands are 
full and she has an audience. Well, her now-established schtick is to 
rub her nose on my legs while the audience laughs and coos... Good 
grief! I swear, next time I am getting an ugly dog. /lol/

She also responds to the GL very much like Bogart does.  When it is on, 
she is very well-behaved even on casual leash walks. With just her 
collar, she will still pull super hard and choke while we argue about 
who decides where we go. Grr! She had a cut on her muzzle, so I haven't 
been using it for a couple of weeks, but it's back on now! Well, I also 
have to be careful these days because the puppy thinks it is very 
amusing to lead her sister around by the leash... But she gets excited 
and rowdy, because she is a puppy, but she's a big puppy, so I don't 
want her to break her sister doing that. /lol/ Mitzi is very 
long-suffering about it all unless the pup gets too out of hand, then 
Mitzi reminds her who is *really* in charge in that sisterhood. /lol/

I'm thinking of the possibility of prong collar for the giant monster 
puppy, because she has such a different construction than the poodle. I 
did consider it for Mitzi, but not for very long because of that long 
slender neck with the windpipe and all so close to the surface. Also, 
the nose loop on the GL allows me to just gently pull her head to the 
side when she is being obstinate. So she is not so obstinate these days. 
/smile/

So far, the back-fastening head collar is working with the pup. It is a 
major pain to get on and off, though. I may switch to GL again later, 
when she is not so prone to chomp the dangling parts... I use it now and 
then, but since we're doing leash training and repetition, then I want 
to stick with what she is used to. It's also working, since she has 
learned that disobedience doesn't pay, since it doesn't get her what she 
wants. Which is usually a trespass in someone's yard. No trespassing! 
/lol/ But already I can simply give that command or just repeat it a bit 
more sharply and give a light tug, and she comes back in line. If she 
doesn't, though, I can simply keep walking and leave her no choice but 
to follow.

So the less direct forms of negative reinforcement do work effectively. 
The dog does learn, and quickly, because the unwanted behavior is simply 
not rewarding. Then you can reward for a return to the desired behavior, 
naturally. Given a bit of patience and consistency, the dog takes to 
doing what you want it to instead of what you don't. /smile/

Tami

On 04/23/2012 11:40 AM, GARY STEEVES wrote:
> Hi Hana:
>
> I highly recommend the gentle leader or halty for our poodle friends. Bogart has a (oh shoot, what is his colloar called, we just talked about them last week, mostly nylon with small bit of chain at the bottom ... silly brain) I find that even that, with a hard correction worries me a bit with his slender poodley neck. If he is being a total idiot then it is out with the halty and then he heels perfectly and acts like the dog I want him to be. No corrections are really necessary. Maybe gentle movement of the leash but generally, he won't pull when it is on. Now you must be prepared for your darling dog to make the world think you are torturing him but, not to worry, you're not. :)
>
> Gary
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Hannah Chadwick<sparklylicious at gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:57 am
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Wanting to Chase all moving animals, especially small ones...
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>> Rox,
>> I've only used a pinch collar and a choke collar. The pinch
>> collar seems to
>> work better in certain areas because I'm sure it probably hurts
>> more when
>> snapped. I might try the gentle leader and head collar if this
>> continues.Thank you
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>> On Behalf
>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:48 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Wanting to Chase all moving animals,
>> especially small
>> ones...
>>
>> Hannah,
>> Have you ever used a head collar such as a gental leader or
>> halti with your
>> dog?  The advantage of using a head collar in this kind of
>> situation is that
>> you can use the collar to move the dog's head away from the
>> distraction.
>> Best of luck,
>>
>>
>> Rox
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2012, at 10:19 AM, "Hannah Chadwick"
>> <sparklylicious at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Julie,
>>> Thank you. I do have a few friends who are guide dog users,
>> and I've
>> spoken
>>> with them. However, they haven't had all these things pop up
>> that I've
>> had.
>>> Juanita, it sounds like your dog listens well. I usually have
>> to do some
>>> serious corrections or just drag Princess away from the
>> distraction. I
>> don't
>>> like doing this, but it seems that I have to or she won't budge.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-
>> bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Julie J.
>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:08 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Wanting to Chase all moving animals,
>> especially small
>>> ones...
>>>
>>> Hannah,
>>>
>>> I think the struggles you are having with Princess stem from a
>> discrepancy>  between what you expected and what you got.
>> It could be that what you
>>> expect is absolutely within normal parameters for a guide dog
>> and Princess
>>> isn't trained to that standard.  Or it could be that what
>> you are
>> expecting
>>> is not attainable or not at this point in the
>> partnership.  Either way,
>> it's
>>> clear that you are not happy with her level of guiding.
>>>
>>> If it helps I think everyone had ideas of what a guide dog
>> would be like
>>> before they actually got one;  marvelous, ease of travel,
>> less getting
>> lost,
>>> safer, faster etc.  I'd also bet that most of us had some
>> surprises in the
>>> first year.  I know for me I seriously underestimated how
>> much the dog
>> would
>>> think on his own.  that sounds silly.  It's true
>> though.  I never
>>> anticipated all the give and take that would be
>> involved.  I never thought
>>> I'd stand on the corner and have discussions with the dog
>> about which
>>> direction we'd be going.  I thought I'd say left and the
>> dog would go
>> left.
>>> While that's generally true, there are a million exceptions to
>> why it
>> isn't
>>> exactly true.
>>>
>>> Do you have friends with guide dogs in your area?  It
>> might be helpful to
>>> visit with some people in person and see how they work with
>> their guides.
>>> Email isn't always the best means of communication.  We
>> do tend to talk
>>> about the more positive aspects of having a guide, although I
>> have noticed
>> a
>>> trend in the past few years to be a lot more honest about the less
>> pleasant
>>> bits.
>>>
>>> I guarantee you that each and every guide dog handler has had
>> their share
>> of
>>> struggles, especially in that first year or so.  Monty,
>> bless his heart,
>> was
>>> a distracted horror for the longest time.  In the very
>> beginning when I
>> was
>>> still training him, he used to bounce up and down when he saw
>> another dog.
>>> I mean literally bounce up and down like TTigger. He used to
>> pick up all
>>> sorts of crap off the sidewalk, trash, sticks, bugs, a snake
>> once...oh and
>>> the dead bird.  I remember walking round and round at the
>> park with him so
>>> we could come to an understanding about the squirrels.
>> Now he's pretty
>> good
>>> about the squirrels, rabbits and cats, but if one gets within
>> two or three
>>> feet of
>>> us, he will make a lunge for it.   They usually
>> don't get that close, so
>>> it's a compromise I'm willing to live with.   He
>> doesn't pick up stuff
>>> anymore and he's 99% better about other dogs.  It took
>> work to get there.
>>> My experience is different though because I owner train.
>> I expect nothing
>>> in the beginning.  You were expecting a fully trained and
>> trustworthyguide
>>> and you didn't get that.  I think the question now is,
>> what are you
>> willing
>>> to do? There are lots of options and people have made many
>> suggestions. I
>>> hope you find the path that is right for you.
>>>
>>> all my best,
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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