[nagdu] Dog Halters WAS Re: Wanting to Chase all moving animals, especially small ones...

Tue Apr 24 17:52:00 UTC 2012

Lisa,

Yeah, I always think of that when talking about the GL type collars. For 
someone trained to use hard leash corrections, it's super important that 
they know to never, ever do that with a halter type head gear. I always 
remind DD of that when he is leading his Zay with the GL or her own 
headgear, which is ultra inconvenient to put on. /lol/ Actually, with 
that one, because it is designed to pull from the back of the head 
instead of the side, I've had to figure out how to use it effectively... 
Puppy is a sweetie, and still young enough to just be experimenting with 
stubborn rebellion, but she is very powerful and weighs as much as Mitzi 
already. I keep threatening to career change her to cart pony. /lol/ 
Still, I can do a little negative correction to remind her about the 
leash manners she is learning. Of course, after Mitzi, who responds 
better to finesse, it seems like I'm just being really mean pitting a  
fraction of my pitiful strength in a leash correction. /lol/ Did I train 
Mitzi, or did she train me? Sometimes I wonder.

Anyway, good warning. The GL type head collars look a lot nicer than the 
evil prong collar, but... You can seriously do your dog neck and spine 
damage, which is not very nice at all! But the self-correcting facet of 
using one is very nice, actually. And the communication with the nose 
with your guide is *very* nice. At least with mine with her long 
pointing nose and Stretch Armstrong neck. /lol/ She knows to mind her 
manners and where the boundaries are, but... She is still a dog and we 
still go into restaurants or past the bakery aisle... /grin/

Tami

On 04/23/2012 10:39 AM, Lisa belville wrote:
> Hi.  this is just me, but I wouldn't want to use a prong collar or 
> halty/gentle leader without some training from a trainer.  They showed 
> us how to use them at the GDF, but that was years ago and I couldn't 
> tell you how to put a GL on a dog if my life depended on it. <grin>
>
> Plus you need to change how you correct the dog.  It does a fabulous 
> job of letting you know where the dog's head is, but because of how 
> they fit on the dog you can't give a hard leash correction with them 
> because it could damage the dog's spine.
>
> Not saying they don't have their place, but honestly, I'd feel better 
> for Hannah and Princess if someone from Pilot actually gave some 
> instruction.
>
> 1st Law of Procrastination: that which can be done will be done . . . 
> TOMORROW!!
> Lisa Belville
> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Pawpower Pack" 
> <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Wanting to Chase all moving animals,especially 
> small ones...
>
>
>> Hannah,
>> Have you ever used a head collar such as a gental leader or halti 
>> with your dog?  The advantage of using a head collar in this kind of 
>> situation is that you can use the collar to move the dog's head away 
>> from the distraction.
>> Best of luck,
>>
>>
>> Rox
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2012, at 10:19 AM, "Hannah Chadwick" 
>> <sparklylicious at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Julie,
>>> Thank you. I do have a few friends who are guide dog users, and I've 
>>> spoken
>>> with them. However, they haven't had all these things pop up that 
>>> I've had.
>>> Juanita, it sounds like your dog listens well. I usually have to do 
>>> some
>>> serious corrections or just drag Princess away from the distraction. 
>>> I don't
>>> like doing this, but it seems that I have to or she won't budge.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J.
>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:08 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Wanting to Chase all moving animals, especially 
>>> small
>>> ones...
>>>
>>> Hannah,
>>>
>>> I think the struggles you are having with Princess stem from a 
>>> discrepancy
>>> between what you expected and what you got.  It could be that what you
>>> expect is absolutely within normal parameters for a guide dog and 
>>> Princess
>>> isn't trained to that standard.  Or it could be that what you are 
>>> expecting
>>> is not attainable or not at this point in the partnership.  Either 
>>> way, it's
>>> clear that you are not happy with her level of guiding.
>>>
>>> If it helps I think everyone had ideas of what a guide dog would be 
>>> like
>>> before they actually got one;  marvelous, ease of travel, less 
>>> getting lost,
>>> safer, faster etc.  I'd also bet that most of us had some surprises 
>>> in the
>>> first year.  I know for me I seriously underestimated how much the 
>>> dog would
>>> think on his own.  that sounds silly.  It's true though.  I never
>>> anticipated all the give and take that would be involved.  I never 
>>> thought
>>> I'd stand on the corner and have discussions with the dog about which
>>> direction we'd be going.  I thought I'd say left and the dog would 
>>> go left.
>>> While that's generally true, there are a million exceptions to why 
>>> it isn't
>>> exactly true.
>>>
>>> Do you have friends with guide dogs in your area?  It might be 
>>> helpful to
>>> visit with some people in person and see how they work with their 
>>> guides.
>>> Email isn't always the best means of communication.  We do tend to talk
>>> about the more positive aspects of having a guide, although I have 
>>> noticed a
>>> trend in the past few years to be a lot more honest about the less 
>>> pleasant
>>> bits.
>>>
>>> I guarantee you that each and every guide dog handler has had their 
>>> share of
>>> struggles, especially in that first year or so.  Monty, bless his 
>>> heart, was
>>> a distracted horror for the longest time.  In the very beginning 
>>> when I was
>>> still training him, he used to bounce up and down when he saw 
>>> another dog.
>>> I mean literally bounce up and down like TTigger. He used to pick up 
>>> all
>>> sorts of crap off the sidewalk, trash, sticks, bugs, a snake 
>>> once...oh and
>>> the dead bird.  I remember walking round and round at the park with 
>>> him so
>>> we could come to an understanding about the squirrels.  Now he's 
>>> pretty good
>>> about the squirrels, rabbits and cats, but if one gets within two or 
>>> three
>>> feet of
>>> us, he will make a lunge for it.   They usually don't get that 
>>> close, so
>>> it's a compromise I'm willing to live with.   He doesn't pick up stuff
>>> anymore and he's 99% better about other dogs.  It took work to get 
>>> there.
>>>
>>> My experience is different though because I owner train.  I expect 
>>> nothing
>>> in the beginning.  You were expecting a fully trained and 
>>> trustworthy guide
>>> and you didn't get that.  I think the question now is, what are you 
>>> willing
>>> to do? There are lots of options and people have made many 
>>> suggestions. I
>>> hope you find the path that is right for you.
>>>
>>> all my best,
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sparklylicious%40gmail.co 
>>>
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/pawpower4me%40gmail.com 
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/missktlab1217%40frontier.com 
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tamara.8024%40comcast.net 
>
>