[nagdu] Miniature Horse Article
Ann Edie
annedie at nycap.rr.com
Tue Apr 24 21:26:25 UTC 2012
Hi, Frandi,
I'm afraid that your statements with regard to miniature horses do not
square with the experience of those of us who have trained and worked with
miniature horse guides for the past decade. Just as some of the statements
made by people quoted in the original article, your statements do not seem
to be based on actual experience or fact.
Best,
Ann
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Frandi Galindo
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 5:26 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Miniature Horse Article
The Idea of a guide horse is awesome, but think about it. There are more
things that a guide horse has to carry. I don't think you can train a horse
to only pea or poop in the grass. Unlike a horse, a dog can tuck itself in
under a table, or on a bus, a car or a boat, I am sure you all know where I
am going with this. Also, with a horse, you have to have at least two of
them one to keep the other company as they are herd animals. I know dogs
are pack animals, but its different. Not sure how to explain it, but it
just is. Don't get me wrong, like I said it would be awesome to have
another animal other than a dog as a guide, and I am sure horses could do
the job as they are very, very intelligent. There are so many more things I
could say, but we'll leave this email short.
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J.
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 8:06 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Minature Horse Article
Lyn,
Is the Woman's Day article available on the internet anywhere? I'd love to
read it. I know your friend in the article and admire her a lot. I hope
the article does her justice.
Julie
On 4/23/2012 7:28 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
> Hi Rebecca,
> I would imagine there was similar things said about dogs back in the
> early days of guide dogs that we see today about the guide horses.
>
> Back in Morris Frank's time (1920s) people didn't bring dogs around
> with them like people do today. Our society is much more dog-friendly
> now than it was then. The society wasn't even disable-friendly as it
> is today. Back in Morris's time, blind people didn't get out and
> around like now because they didn't even have the long white cane to
> enable folks to travel independently.
>
> I think one of the problems that guide horses will have over guide
> dogs is that dogs do live indoors - our homes - and horses do not.
> Horses are considered barn animals. But, like guide dogs in Morris
> Frank's time, guide horses will gain acceptance as people get familiar
> with them.
>
> If anyone reads Woman's Day Magazine, the current issue - May 2012 -
> there is an article about a good friend of mine who is training her
> miniature horse, Angel, to be a guide. My friend is in contact with
> several guide horse users. Read it if you can.
>
> Like guide dogs, I think the horses will have to prove themselves.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)"
> <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 8:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Minature Horse Article
>
>
>> Anybody know if the critisism raised about guide horses was
>> also raised about guide dogs back in the day? I.E. Dogs live outside,
>> they aren't house-broken, that sort of thing.
>> I don't recall seeing critisism of that flavor in my reading of the
>> Seeing Eye.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steven Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 8:26 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'; wagdu at nfbwis.org
>> Subject: [nagdu] Minature Horse Article
>>
>> A horse is a horse, of course.
>>
>> That's why business owners are getting nervous about a new federal
>> regulation requiring a particular breed of horse to be allowed into
>> shops and restaurants across the country.
>>
>> The Justice Department regulations were tailored for so-called "service"
>> horses -- miniature horses that, like service dogs, accompany the
>> blind and others with disabilities to help them get around.
>>
>> But the rules were a lawsuit waiting to happen, according to critics.
>> And
>> sure enough, a suit was filed earlier this month in Los Angeles, by a
>> man who uses a wheelchair and keeps a miniature horse named Princess
>> -- and who claims a local GameStop and Marshalls refused him and his
>> horse service.
>>
>>
>>
>> Related Slideshow
>>
>>
>>
>> Miniature horses -- pet, livestock or service animal?
>>
>>
>> Heard of seeing-eye dogs? There's an alternative. Miniature horses,
>> while commonly kept on farms, can also be used as "service" animals
>> -- to help the blind and disabled get around. A federal rule
>> requiring businesses to let them inside has stirred concern of
>> lawsuits. The dispute doesn't distract from their cuteness, though.
>>
>>
>>
>> The case, as well as the regulation, has drawn concern from at least
>> one lawmaker on Capitol Hill, as well as the National Restaurant
>> Association.
>>
>> "I like horses. My daughter likes horses. But even in the Wild West,
>> they put them outside," said Angelo Amador, vice president of the
>> restaurant association.
>>
>> The organization has a few gripes. First, many business owners just
>> don't know about the rule, and are only familiar with dogs being a
>> traditional service animal. Amador said those that do know have
>> concerns the animals aren't housebroken.
>>
>> "You cannot train a horse ... housebreak them like you would do with
>> a dog,"
>> he said.
>>
>> The owner could claim the horse is housebroken, but if that turns out
>> not to be the case then the business has a sanitation problem on its
>> hands -- rather, its floor.
>>
>> "After the deed is done, you have a number of other issues in the
>> restaurant," Amador said. "It's kind of like damned if you do, and
>> damned if you don't."
>>
>> Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, cast the rule as a case of Washington
>> overreach
>> -- hardly one to resist a pun, he accused the Justice Department of
>> "making more hay" for trial attorneys.
>>
>> "Do we really need to saddle businesses with more regulation? I say,
>> 'Naaayyy.' Every scenario in life does not need a rule or
>> regulation," he said in a statement to FoxNews.com.
>>
>> The regulations on service animals were first put out in September
>> 2010, as part of the Americans With Disabilities Act.
>>
>> The rules, which went into effect later, actually narrowed down what
>> used to be a broad definition for service animals. For most purposes,
>> the Justice Department decided to recognize only dogs -- but the
>> department added an exception for miniature horses after being
>> "persuaded" regarding their benefits to the disabled.
>>
>> The guidelines noted that the horses can be "viable alternatives" for
>> people who are allergic to dogs or whose religious beliefs do not
>> allow them to be around dogs.
>>
>> "Another consideration mentioned in favor of the use of miniature
>> horses is the longer life span," the guidelines said. They can
>> provide "service" to the disabled for more than 25 years, as opposed
>> to roughly seven working years for the typical dog. Plus the horses,
>> despite their petite size, can be stronger.
>>
>> That was the case for Jose Estrada, the plaintiff in the case filed
>> this month in Los Angeles court.
>>
>> His attorney, Morse Mehrban, told FoxNews.com that a dog "doesn't
>> have the sufficient strength to pull him in his wheelchair."
>>
>> So Estrada, a paraplegic, uses a 29-inch-high miniature horse named
>> Princess. According to the complaint, the two retail stores being
>> sued "refused to permit said animal" inside along with Estrada last
month.
>> The
>> suit says Princess "is housebroken" and would not "compromise" the
>> safety of those two stores.
>>
>> "Apparently, they don't understand that a miniature horse can be a
>> service animal," Mehrban said.
>>
>> Estrada is suing for "no less than" $4,000 in damages.
>>
>> The federal rules state that businesses should allow in the horses as
>> long as they're trained, considering such factors as the size of the
>> horse, whether it's under control, whether it's "housebroken," and
>> whether its presence would compromise "legitimate safety
>> requirements."
>>
>> Amador says the horses cannot be housebroken.
>>
>> The Guide Horse Foundation, though, says on its website that the
>> horses "learn exactly the same behaviors as a guide dog," and that
>> they "never bite or kick except when attacked."
>>
>> The organization could not be reached for comment.
>>
>> The use of miniature horses as service animals, though, has created a
>> bit of a rift in the miniature horse community.
>>
>> The American Miniature Horse Association does not condone the use of
>> miniature horses for that purpose. Association President Harry Elder
>> applauded those who have received "ADA certification" to train
>> animals but questioned the use of miniature horses.
>>
>> "Although the American Miniature Horse is bred to be intelligent,
>> curious, gentle, sensible, willing to cooperate and easy to train, it
>> remains in all respects physically and instinctively a true horse.
>> The American Miniature Horse can be readily trained to be lead or
>> driven but, in most cases, it would not make a suitable replacement
>> for an animal such as a guide dog," he said in a statement.
>>
>> According to the group, there are 200,000 miniature horses registered
>> with the organization around the world, though it's unclear how many
>> are used as service animals in the U.S.
>>
>> Other retail groups are taking the Justice Department rule in stride
>> and say they're trying to follow it. Mallory Duncan, senior vice
>> president with the National Retail Federation, said the group is
>> continuing to hold talks on "how best to comply."
>>
>> "Retailers are sensitive to the many challenges confronting our
>> customers and work to reasonably accommodate all shoppers when and
>> where appropriate,"
>> Duncan said. "Retailers must remain cognizant of the unique
>> challenges service animals present in the retail setting in order to
>> best protect and serve the general public."
>>
>>
>>
>>
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