[nagdu] Slightly OT was Re: howling was RE: Amazing dogs?

Sat Apr 28 11:34:21 UTC 2012

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Marion Gwizdala

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hannah Chadwick" <sparklylicious at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Slightly OT was Re: howling was RE: Amazing dogs?

> Hmmmm... I might just try that...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 7:57 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Slightly OT was Re: howling was RE: Amazing dogs?
>
> There is a movie about sled dogs in which someone who does not usually 
> work
> with dogs is having a really hard time getting the lead dog to behave.
> Everyone keeps telling him "Bite his ear." Finally, near the end of the
> movie, the person ends up doing it. The other person who is with him 
> cannot
> believe that he actually did it. When the first person says that that is
> what everyone says to do, the response of the second person is, "I never 
> met
> anyone crazy enough to do it."
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tami Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 11:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] howling was RE: Amazing dogs?
>
>
>> Hannah,
>>
>> The version of the muzzle hold I use on Mitzi is to place my hands
>> straight along the sides of her muzzle from behind. If she's being super
>> stubborn about not being quiet on command, I will cup my fingers around
>> her mouth to hold it gently closed, unless she is really determined, then
>> I will tighten the hold enough to prevent her opening her mouth. I will
>> ask her to be quiet while acknowledging that she is telling me about
>> something, which seems to let her know she has done her job. Unless she 
>> is
>
>> just having a bark fit because she feels like it. She doesn't do that in
>> the harness, but every now and then she decides she must stand in the 
>> back
>
>> yard and bark just to be barking. Or have a nice howl. /lol/
>>
>> With that muzzle hold, she pulls away, but she does not like such
>> treatment, so I have her attention. I will generally use my calm, firm
>> voice to repeat quiet... Or shut up you stupid mutt! /lol/ She's more
>> likely to be this obstinate out in the yard, really. If we're on a walk 
>> on
>
>> leash or if she is working, then I can just direct her forward and be
>> insistent. She was being that way a couple of days ago, just walking
>> around, but then she gave it up and just prances at the things she was
>> barking at the day before. So I praised her for that and laughed, which 
>> is
>
>> good reward for her.
>>
>> I don't know if I've ever tried growling with her... Or the looking in 
>> the
>
>> face with my Alpha B look... Just seems to make her more obstinate, doing
>> it that way. So I looked for other approaches...
>>
>> When she decided to try barking in public places, I could cheerfully have
>> killed her. But correction didn't work, the muzzle hold didn't work...
>> Well, I tried a stronger correction than usual, which made the behavior
>> more hardened, so then I had more of a problem. Sigh.
>>
>> If she was really, really excited, what I started doing was the calming
>> body hold, a la the Dog Whisperer. I would hold her leash in one hand and
>> drop the harness handle and bend over her with my arm along her side and
>> my hand over her foreleg, lightly, enough to contain and limit the
>> bouncing and prancing. I discovered I could feel her heart rate that way,
>> going at hummingbird speed. With her contained by my one arm I would then
>> put my other arm across her chest so my hand was curled around her neck,
>> preventing forward leaping and also allowing me to feel her tension. Then
>> i could talk to her and kind of adjust how I was dealing with her while
>> noting when her heart rate slowed... Then, figuring she could listen to
>> sense, I would work some obedience with her or address whatever caused 
>> all
>
>> that excitement to teach her to remain calm when it was going on.
>>
>> So for barking in harness, I finally was able to simply draw her head 
>> away
>
>> from the distraction and spend less time on the calming hold. I would 
>> also
>
>> run my hand along her throat until the barking muscles relaxed. Then
>> reward her with high-value treats. Or smelly treats, as I call them.
>> /smile/ I was then able to start to use the smelly treats to gain her
>> attention and draw her stubborn nose away from the distraction. And so 
>> on.
>>
>> It took a lot of patience and consistency, but now if she is startled by
>> something and wants to vocalize, she pretty much settles herself. But I
>> still always praise and give a food reward if it's convenient. Just to
>> reinforce that good behavior! /smile/ If she is having a squirly day, 
>> then
>
>> I will do calming stuff and redirection more than correction. The
>> correction is most likely still to just set off her obstinate streak.
>> Calming and exerting my authority in other ways gets better results, so
>> that's how we roll. Also, I talk to her while I'm calming and 
>> redirecting,
>
>> since she likes a good chat. I feel fairly silly at times, but whatever
>> works. /grin/
>>
>> Oh, with a pup that is a different kind of obstinate, if very sweet, I
>> have growled at her, and it has worked. Once, when I had my hands full of
>> squirmy little brick and couldn't do that mama pinch on the back of the
>> neck, I actually bit her. Hadn't planned to, so I was as surprised as she
>> was, but she did settle down. I have not bitten her again. /lol/ I do
>> growl at times with the neck pinch or nose pinch to simulate that form of
>> dog discipline. That would never work with Mitzi poodle, but the puppy 
>> got
>
>> the message. Call me Big Momma! /lol/
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 04/23/2012 01:02 PM, Hannah Chadwick wrote:
>>> Lisa,
>>> I've done that a few times but there's a small part of me that's afraid
>>> she'd bight. While I know she absolutely won't, I have a difficult time
>>> bringing myself to do it because I was bitten when I was younger and
>>> there's
>>> still the fear in me. However, this technique sometimes does work but
>>> other
>>> times she just pulls away.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Lisa belville
>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 10:33 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] howling was RE: Amazing dogs?
>>>
>>> wow, I didn't get that part.  Maybe leaning over and getting right in
>>> Princess's face while using a hand to clamp shut that long poodly muzzle
>>> and
>>> growling quiet would be a good idea, too.  My last dog was a mumbler, so
>>> I'd
>>> have to do this when he was getting too vocal for the situation.
>>>
>>> I'd have to know, too, does she do the howling in harness, out of
>>> harness,
>>> or all three?  Definitely, I wouldn't want it going on in harness, but 
>>> it
>>> would be easier to manage if she did it while not working.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1st Law of Procrastination: that which can be done will be done . . .
>>> TOMORROW!!
>>> Lisa Belville
>>> missktlab1217 at frontier.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Marsha Drenth"<marsha.drenth at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:20 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] howling was RE: Amazing dogs?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hannah,
>>>>
>>>> I think I read your below message right. Your saying that when your pup
>>>> sees
>>>> a squirrel, she howls? Have you tried to say "quiet". Not sure if that
>>>> is
>>>> a
>>>> command they teach at Pilot. I haven't had a pup that howls. But I am
>>>> sure
>>>> there is someone on here that could help you resolve that issue.
>>>>
>>>> What do you guys think?
>>>>
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Hannah Chadwick
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:54 AM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Amazing dogs?
>>>>
>>>> Tracy,
>>>> I just feel like I come up with one thing or another every week. It
>>>> horrible! Lol.
>>>> I'm sure I can compromise, and live with a lot of things, but there are
>>>> things I just can't stand like howling and not responding because of a
>>>> squirrel.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 8:48 AM
>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Amazing dogs?
>>>>
>>>> So Hannah, you think the rest of us all have amazing dogs?  That's 
>>>> nice!
>>>> It seems to me I'm always poor-mouthing my Benny boy.  He has some
>>>> amazing
>>>> qualities, but he has his faults, too.  And some of them are 2 sides of
>>>> the
>>>> same coin.  For example, I love his cocky self-confidence.  I'm sure it
>>>> helps him cope with the big bad city.  But it also makes him hard to
>>>> correct, since he's so sure he's right in whatever he wants to do.
>>>>
>>>> Every dog has faults, to some degree or other.  And every person has to
>>>> decide, with every dog, these things:
>>>> Is this fault so serious that I'm unsafe?  Can this fault be fixed, 
>>>> and,
>>>> if
>>>> so, how?  If it can't be fixed, can I live with it?
>>>> And the ones I can live with, if I must, may not be the same ones you
>>>> can
>>>> live with, and vice versa.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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