[nagdu] Family and Friends Accepting Person with Guide Dog; was: ...Civility

Jenny Keller jlperdue3 at gmail.com
Wed Aug 1 01:02:38 UTC 2012


Hi all,

In that same subject.  I am still waiting to find out whether I can put weight on my leg or not and won't find out till the 15th, but as you spoke about friends and family accepting or rejecting the idea of getting a guide.  My step-Mom was so instrumental about helping me have the confidence to get a dog.  

She is now stricken with Alzheimer's Disease, and I pray I can heal fast enough to have the interview for the school and then get a dog, so that she can get pictures of us together as a team before she slips into oblivion.

she is so excited for me to get another one though, because she always asks my Dad while we're talking what kind of dog I got. 

She truly has been the Wind Beneath my Wings.

Jenny
On Jul 31, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Ann Edie wrote:

> Hi, Melissa and Everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think this type of thing happens too often to guide dog handlers in
> places of public accommodation, unless the establishment is owned/run by
> persons whose culture views dogs as unclean or unsuitable for indoor
> presence, because most people know about guide dogs and admire the work they
> do.  However, I think it may happen more often to persons with other
> disabilities who use service dogs, especially persons with disabilities
> which are not immediately apparent to the casual observer, such as the
> person in the story about the change of service at the diner when she
> appeared with her service dog, because there is some doubt in the minds of
> the facility management that the use of the animal is legitimate.
> 
> 
> 
> I do think that quite a few blind people find that some of their friends or
> relatives might not accept the dog at first or even never, or might treat
> them differently once they have a guide dog, because the use of the dog does
> subtley change the relationship between the blind person and his/her family
> members and friends.  Some may not be able to accept the greater
> independence and confidence of the blind person, and some may just not like
> dogs and not want to spend much time with someone who always brings the dog
> along.  Some people just don't like the smell, hair, licking, toenails
> scratching, tail-wagging, and who knows what else about dogs and just can't
> stand to have a dog around them, no matter how well they liked the blind
> person before he/she got the guide dog.
> 
> 
> 
> As to how it should be handled, this is an individual decision and depends
> on the relationship between the people.  It is certainly important to have
> discussions before getting a guide dog with those with whom one lives or is
> very close, to make sure that one understands how the other people feel
> about one's obtaining a guide dog.  Most of the guide dog programs have
> materials which can be used to start such discussions with one's family
> members and close friends.  Usually, family members are thrilled to have a
> highly-trained and very friendly canine join their family or circle of
> friends, and the biggest problem the new dog handler will have is keeping
> his family members and friends from taking liberties and trying to become
> too friendly with the dog.  If someone close to the prospective handler
> absolutely cannot live with the person's decision to get a guide dog, then
> the blind person has to make the judgment as to which is more important to
> him/her, the choice of a mobility technique that maximizes his/her
> independence, confidence, and opportunity to pursue his/her life goals, or
> the relationship with the person who cannot accept the dog.  Things are not
> usually quite so black-and-white, though, and compromises can usually be
> made.
> 
> 
> 
> Before one gets a guide dog, it is also important to have some discussion
> with the management of one's place of employment, although this conversation
> is different because it is not meant to elicit the feelings of the
> management on the subject of one's getting the dog guide, but to inform the
> management that one is exercising his/her right to have the dog in the work
> environment as a reasonable accommodation, and to clarify how persons in the
> workplace are to interact, or not interact, with the dog and its handler.
> It is hard to know whether having a guide dog enhances or decreases one's
> attractiveness to a prospective employer, or if it has any bearing on one's
> chances for employment above and beyond the fact of one's blindness as such.
> But I think it can go either way, again, depending on the particular place
> of employment and individual managers.
> 
> 
> 
> My own agency would be thrilled to employ persons with disabilities who use
> service animals.  Even before I came to the agency, there was an office dog,
> who happened to be a pet of one of the office staff.  Now, besides that dog,
> one of our Directors regularly brings her dog (which she is trying to train
> to be a therapy dog) to the office.  And everyone is excited whenever I am
> at the office with Panda.  But not all employers have this kind of attitude,
> of course.  But they all must obey the law, regardless of their personal
> preferences.  There may have to be some adjustments to office arrangements
> or schedules if there are other employees present with legitimate dog
> allergies which rise to the level of a disability.  And of course, the dog
> must be clean and well-behaved, so as to reflect well upon the company as
> well as the individual handler, especially if the work involves contact with
> customers or the public in general.  But basically, the employer does not
> have the prerogative of saying that they are glad to employ you, but not if
> you choose to be accompanied by a service dog.
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Ann
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of melissa padron
> 
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:54 AM
> 
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> 
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility
> 
> 
> 
> Is it common for guide dog users to encounter this type of situation? Say a
> business, family member, or friend were fine with the individual before a
> guide dog, but then once the person gets a guide dog they ignore them or
> show negativity towards them or whatever you want to call it. How should
> this type of situation be handled? 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a guide dog so I can't really draw from my own experiences.... 
> 
> 
> 
> Melissa 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Vanessa Lowery <vlowery at dhr.state.md.us>
> 
> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 'NAGDU Mailing List
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> 
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 1:16 PM
> 
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility
> 
> Well, don't know about others, but I don't patronize a place of business to
> determine if I win a popularity contest based on the pesence of absence of
> my guide dog.  I go because I want service, and I use a guide dog.  They can
> jsut get over it, for all I care.  If they serve me with the nastiest
> attitude they can conjur up, more power to them as long as I am served.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vanessa Lowery, LGSW
> 
> Adult and Community Services Division
> 
> Adult Services Screening Unit
> 
> 410-853-3550
> 
> VLowery at dhr.state.md.us
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>> "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> 7/30/2012
> 
>>>> 1:34 PM >>>
> 
> But it sounds like this woman wants the staff to like her. They don't for
> whatever reason when she's got the dog with her. Talking to them won't make
> them like her and it is the liking she wants. 
> 
> Many people leave their dogs home for Bible study. 
> 
> This really is no different. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Vanessa Lowery
> 
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 1:02 PM
> 
> To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 'NAGDU Mailing List
> 
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility
> 
> 
> 
> If this is a service dog, and she needs to dog to perform certain tasks,
> what would be the logic in leaving the dog at home in order to go to the
> restaurant?  I wonder if there are some missing pieces to this story.  But
> I'm certainly not going to leave my dog at home just because the staff has a
> bee up ther (you fill in the blank) because they don't like me nor my dog.
> They will serve me like they should any other customer, and if they don't, I
> would ahve a little chat with the Better Busines Bureau.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vanessa Lowery, LGSW
> 
> Adult and Community Services Division
> 
> Adult Services Screening Unit
> 
> 410-853-3550
> 
> VLowery at dhr.state.md.us 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>> "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> 7/30/2012
> 
>>>> 11:51 AM >>>
> 
> I wonder what would happen if she just went to the diner without her dog?
> 
> I'm also wondering how many people we're talking about. Four or five?? It
> hurts but isn't that many.
> 
> I also wonder what's going on, and wonder why if this places means so much
> to her she just doesn't go without the dog?
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Lyn Gwizdak
> 
> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 1:18 PM
> 
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> 
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility
> 
> 
> 
> Strange case.  I wonder what is...the rest of the story.  It is very odd
> that a place of business where everyone there - employees and customers
> alike - were friendly pre-dog and nasty post-dog.  It really makes no sense.
> 
> you might find one of two employees or a customer or two, but EVERYONE
> becoming nasty?
> 
> 
> 
> Are there anyone on this list who knows the place and might like to just go
> in and see what happens?
> 
> 
> 
> Lyn and Landon
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> From: "Ginger Kutsch" <GingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
> 
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> 
> Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:09 AM
> 
> Subject: [nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility
> 
>> 
> 
>> By ADAM KLASFELD
> 
>> 
> 
>> Source: http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/07/27/48772.htm
> 
>> 
> 
>> MANHATTAN (CN) - A New York City diner did not discriminate against a 
> 
>> disabled woman who said that waiters gave her a cold shoulder once she 
> 
>> starting bringing a service dog into the restaurant, an appellate 
> 
>> court ruled.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    Cheryl Krist, whose combination of asthma, arthritis and tremor 
> 
>> has hurt her mobility since 2003, bought the dog five years later to 
> 
>> cope with her symptoms.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    At the time, she said, she had been a loyal customer of the 
> 
>> Coopertown Diner, owned by Michael Kolombos and his self-named 
> 
>> corporation, for nearly two decades.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    "Coopertown, for Krist, had been 'like... Cheers... you went in 
> 
>> and you knew people and people knew you and you were friendly and 
> 
>> everything was fine,'" the appellate court summarized, quoting the 
> 
>> trial transcript.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    But she said that "all went right out the window" after she 
> 
>> brought the dog, according to the court.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    The 2nd Circuit decision, written by Judge Amalya Kearse and 
> 
>> co-signed by Judges Susan Carney and Clifford Wallace, outlines what 
> 
>> the undisputed trial evidence showed.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    "The first time she took the dog to the restaurant, Joe Mugno, a 
> 
>> waiter with whom she frequently had had lunch, asked her if her dog was 
> 
>> a service dog, using a tone of skepticism. Krist responded that it was 
> 
>> a service dog, and she and Mugno had no further conversations about the 
> 
>> dog; but Mugno never had lunch with her again. Krist testified that on 
> 
>> this occasion, none of the other employees of the restaurant spoke to 
> 
>> her, even to exchange pleasantries. In addition, one of the customers, 
> 
>> who had sat with Krist every day she was at Coopertown for 10 years, 
> 
>> refused to sit with her, never sat with her again, and stopped speaking 
> 
>> to her.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    "Krist also testified that there were incidents in which 
> 
>> [co-owners Fotios] Batas or Michael Kolombos 'yelled' at her. Thus, on 
> 
>> her second visit to Coopertown with the dog, a few days after the 
> 
>> first, Batas, from behind the counter on the opposite side of the 
> 
>> restaurant, stared at the dog and made growling sounds," the decision 
> 
>> states.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    At one point, Krist and Batas quarreled about whether the dog barked.
> 
>> She claimed it made a "boof" sound, but he still ordered her to leave 
> 
>> the restaurant.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    After more such incidents, Krist says she decided to stop going to 
> 
>> Coopertown in September 2009, and she filed a federal lawsuit seeking 
> 
>> punitive damages and an injunction.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    U.S. District Judge George Daniels found after a three-day bench 
> 
>> trial that Krist showed "no evidence that any of these owners of this 
> 
>> restaurant or employees of this restaurant treated plaintiff any 
> 
>> differently because she was disabled.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    "There is no evidence of that from the 20 years before she had the 
> 
>> dog, and there is no evidence of that when she got the dog," he 
> 
>> emphasized.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    The judge added that the Americans with Disabilities Act was 
> 
>> intended to safeguard access, not friendliness.
> 
>> 
> 
>>    "The ADA doesn't prohibit the conduct at issue here, complaining 
> 
>> about the dog's handling and the dog's behavior, even if done in a rude 
> 
>> and insensitive manner -if I could even characterize it as that,"
> 
>> Daniels wrote.
> 
>> "[That] is not what the ADA is intended to reach. This may have been 
> 
>> thought of like Cheers, but the ADA does not guarantee that kind of 
> 
>> atmosphere.
> 
>> The
> 
>> ADA prohibits discrimination and denial of use and enjoyment of public 
> 
>> facilities."
> 
>> 
> 
>>    The three-judge panel agreed with this reading of the statute."We 
> 
>> reject Krist's contention that Title III imposes a civility code, and 
> 
>> we see no error in the findings or conclusion of the district court,"
> 
>> the decision states.
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
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