[nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility

Wed Aug 1 19:48:57 UTC 2012

To me, I WILL have the SAME respect as ANYONE ELSE in a business or I won't 
patronize them.  sorry, I will spend my green in a place that wants my 
business, period.

If a person bases his or her friendsship with me on whether i have a dog or 
not - well, don't waste your time.  A person is either my friend or not 
regardless if I have a dog or not.  All of my friends and family have NO 
problem with my dogs - they LOVE them!

I don't suffer idiots and foolishness.  Now, that said, if a friend has a 
VALID reason that maybe my dog will not be comfortable at their place, I 
will weigh that and decide what is best.  for instance:
* The Volunteer Coordinator for our blind center is allergic to dogs.  If I 
need to go into her small office, I leave my dog on a down-stay just outside 
the door and I leave the door open.
* A coouple of weeks ago, I went to the home of some people I know to make 
buttons and signs for our Pride contingent.  They have two small dogs. 
their home is a tiny San diego Craftman bungalow-style home.  I CHOSE to 
leave Landon home and used my cane.  I'm glad I did because there was 
absolutely NO place safe for Landon to  lay comfortable because the place 
was wall-to-wall people and the two little dogs.
* If an event is to be held in a person's home, I will ask if there will be 
a problem with the dog coming.  Someone in that hoousehold could have an 
allergy or their pets who would not like to have Landon to play with.  I ask 
out of respect for the person's own home environment.

Public places of business, now that's another ball of wax.  If I get rude 
treatment, I will not only not patronize that place, I will let everyone 
else know about it so they won't go there either. Hit them in the wallet 
where it counts!

One day, about 12 years ago, I went into a store downtown and was treated 
rudely and the cashier refused to serve me BECAUSE I was blind - never mind 
the dog.  they took the people in line behined me and not me.  None of the 
people thought it wrong for this to happen.  Well, I put my purchases on the 
counter and walked out never to return.  I told all my friends about this 
and they refused to shop there.  Well, the business is now OUT of BUSINESS 
and some other place is there now.

DO NOT put up with second class treatment from anyone!  Respect yourselves 
and demand the same treatment as a non disabled person gets.

I used to work in the public sector in food service as my Dad did.  we both 
are of the opinion that a business must earn respect and patronage to stay 
in business.  You treat the customer with respect and civility if you want 
them to spend their hard earned money in your place.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Vanessa Lowery" <vlowery at dhr.state.md.us>
To: "the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 'NAGDU Mailing List" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility

Well, don't know about others, but I don't patronize a place of business to 
determine if I win a popularity contest based on the pesence of absence of 
my guide dog.  I go because I want service, and I use a guide dog.  They can 
jsut get over it, for all I care.  If they serve me with the nastiest 
attitude they can conjur up, more power to them as long as I am served.

Vanessa Lowery, LGSW
Adult and Community Services Division
Adult Services Screening Unit
410-853-3550
VLowery at dhr.state.md.us

>>> "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> 7/30/2012 1:34 
>>> PM >>>
But it sounds like this woman wants the staff to like her. They don't for 
whatever reason when she's got the dog with her. Talking to them won't make 
them like her and it is the liking she wants.
Many people leave their dogs home for Bible study.
This really is no different.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
Of Vanessa Lowery
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 1:02 PM
To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users' 'NAGDU Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility

If this is a service dog, and she needs to dog to perform certain tasks, 
what would be the logic in leaving the dog at home in order to go to the 
restaurant?  I wonder if there are some missing pieces to this story.  But 
I'm certainly not going to leave my dog at home just because the staff has a 
bee up ther (you fill in the blank) because they don't like me nor my dog. 
They will serve me like they should any other customer, and if they don't, I 
would ahve a little chat with the Better Busines Bureau.

Vanessa Lowery, LGSW
Adult and Community Services Division
Adult Services Screening Unit
410-853-3550
VLowery at dhr.state.md.us

>>> "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> 7/30/2012
>>> 11:51 AM >>>
I wonder what would happen if she just went to the diner without her dog?
I'm also wondering how many people we're talking about. Four or five?? It 
hurts but isn't that many.
I also wonder what's going on, and wonder why if this places means so much 
to her she just doesn't go without the dog?

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
Of Lyn Gwizdak
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 1:18 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility

Strange case.  I wonder what is...the rest of the story.  It is very odd 
that a place of business where everyone there - employees and customers 
alike - were friendly pre-dog and nasty post-dog.  It really makes no sense.
you might find one of two employees or a customer or two, but EVERYONE 
becoming nasty?

Are there anyone on this list who knows the place and might like to just go 
in and see what happens?

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ginger Kutsch" <GingerKutsch at yahoo.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2012 9:09 AM
Subject: [nagdu] Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility

> Diner Must Provide Access, Not Civility
>
> By ADAM KLASFELD
>
> Source: http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/07/27/48772.htm
>
> MANHATTAN (CN) - A New York City diner did not discriminate against a
> disabled woman who said that waiters gave her a cold shoulder once she
> starting bringing a service dog into the restaurant, an appellate
> court ruled.
>
>     Cheryl Krist, whose combination of asthma, arthritis and tremor
> has hurt her mobility since 2003, bought the dog five years later to
> cope with her symptoms.
>
>     At the time, she said, she had been a loyal customer of the
> Coopertown Diner, owned by Michael Kolombos and his self-named
> corporation, for nearly two decades.
>
>     "Coopertown, for Krist, had been 'like... Cheers... you went in
> and you knew people and people knew you and you were friendly and
> everything was fine,'" the appellate court summarized, quoting the
> trial transcript.
>
>     But she said that "all went right out the window" after she
> brought the dog, according to the court.
>
>     The 2nd Circuit decision, written by Judge Amalya Kearse and
> co-signed by Judges Susan Carney and Clifford Wallace, outlines what
> the undisputed trial evidence showed.
>
>     "The first time she took the dog to the restaurant, Joe Mugno, a
> waiter with whom she frequently had had lunch, asked her if her dog
> was a service dog, using a tone of skepticism. Krist responded that it
> was a service dog, and she and Mugno had no further conversations
> about the dog; but Mugno never had lunch with her again. Krist
> testified that on this occasion, none of the other employees of the
> restaurant spoke to her, even to exchange pleasantries. In addition,
> one of the customers, who had sat with Krist every day she was at
> Coopertown for 10 years, refused to sit with her, never sat with her
> again, and stopped speaking to her.
>
>     "Krist also testified that there were incidents in which
> [co-owners Fotios] Batas or Michael Kolombos 'yelled' at her. Thus, on
> her second visit to Coopertown with the dog, a few days after the
> first, Batas, from behind the counter on the opposite side of the
> restaurant, stared at the dog and made growling sounds," the decision
> states.
>
>     At one point, Krist and Batas quarreled about whether the dog barked.
> She claimed it made a "boof" sound, but he still ordered her to leave
> the restaurant.
>
>     After more such incidents, Krist says she decided to stop going to
> Coopertown in September 2009, and she filed a federal lawsuit seeking
> punitive damages and an injunction.
>
>     U.S. District Judge George Daniels found after a three-day bench
> trial that Krist showed "no evidence that any of these owners of this
> restaurant or employees of this restaurant treated plaintiff any
> differently because she was disabled.
>
>     "There is no evidence of that from the 20 years before she had the
> dog, and there is no evidence of that when she got the dog," he
> emphasized.
>
>     The judge added that the Americans with Disabilities Act was
> intended to safeguard access, not friendliness.
>
>     "The ADA doesn't prohibit the conduct at issue here, complaining
> about the dog's handling and the dog's behavior, even if done in a
> rude and insensitive manner -if I could even characterize it as that,"
> Daniels wrote.
> "[That] is not what the ADA is intended to reach. This may have been
> thought of like Cheers, but the ADA does not guarantee that kind of
> atmosphere.
> The
> ADA prohibits discrimination and denial of use and enjoyment of public
> facilities."
>
>     The three-judge panel agreed with this reading of the statute."We
> reject Krist's contention that Title III imposes a civility code, and
> we see no error in the findings or conclusion of the district court,"
> the decision states.
>
>
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